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Saddam and al-Qaeda, Pre-War; A New Report Says ....
Topic Started: Sep 8 2006, 08:45 AM (605 Views)
Ben
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JBryan
Sep 9 2006, 02:12 PM
What is your point, Rick? Are you trying to say that all these Democrats who were making statements exactly like what was quoted above by the Bush Administration get a complete pass because they merely "authorized" war? That this distinction makes Bush a liar but them truthful? Do you realize how silly this sounds?

I don't think that Congress gets a complete pass. I do think that in the end it is Bush's war and he should be held accountable for it.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
No one said he should not. In fact, I wish Congressional Democrats (and some Republicans) would figure that out and stop sniping from the sidelines. However, the underlying point in all these exchanges was that Bush lied. Clearly, he did not - or, if he did so did half of Congress - and the point you bring up is not relevant to that.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Ben
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I do not understand how you continue to insist on such a narrow and overly simplistic definition of lying. Do you really think that artifice on such a large scale is morally acceptable?
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Ben, I truly have no idea what you are talking about. Either the man lied or he didn't. If he lied then so did everyone else who was saying the same thing. Now, what is your point?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Ben
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I think it was wrong to knowingly present faulty intelligence as fact and use carefully crafted statements intended to make a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 in people's minds to create support for the war. The White House was at the top of this, spewing words like "proliferation," "WMDs," and "threat" all over everything related to Iraq. I do not think you can put much blame on Congress and Democrats who authorized the use of force against Hussein because of what they were being told by the White House. I have not read every government-produced document related to Iraq. I have a life. From what I understand the vast majority of Congress members knew little more than what they were being told by the administration. Anyways this is my point and JF's too I think.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
The Bush Administration did not knowingly present faulty intelligence. This has been investigated up the yin-yang and it just simply is not supported by the facts. Nor has it been proven that the White House had any intel that the Congress did not have. If that could be proven then there would no question about Bush lying but it has not. The Congress and the White House were not just operating on the intelligence provided by our own intelligence agencies but that provided by intelligence services of many other countries. Both Congress and the White House were making statements based on what was known at the time. Neither one lied, neither one is to "blame" it was just bad information. You can fault the Administration for not having reliable information if you want but this "lying" charge that keeps resurfacing is just rediculous on its face for the reasons I have given.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Ben
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I've been wishing I'd reworded the first part becuase I did not mean that they knowingly presented falsities as truth. You're right there. I have to go get dinner ready or I'd write some more.
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
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George K
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Finally
(sound of crickets chirping)

Did anyone notice that this report calls Joltin' Joe Wilson a liar?

I did.

(sound of crickets chirping)

(sounds of more crickets chirping)

Guess who else believed the Al-Quaeda Saddam connection?

Richard Clarke (the darling of the "we blew it and I'm sorry" camp)
Quote:
 
The Age of Sacred Terror justifies the Clinton strike on Khartoum on the grounds that "Iraqi weapons-scientists" were linked to Bin Laden's factory and that the suggestive chemical EMPTA, detected at the site, was used only by Iraq to make VX nerve gas. At the time, Clarke defended the bombing in almost the same words, telling the press that he was "sure" that "intelligence existed linking bin Laden to Al Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National Islamic Front in Sudan."


So, was he lying then, or is he lying now?

(crickets.... damn crickets)
A guide to GKSR: Click

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- Mik, 6/14/08


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