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| Saddam and al-Qaeda, Pre-War; A New Report Says .... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 8 2006, 08:45 AM (608 Views) | |
| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:03 PM Post #26 |
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I am the grey one
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The tax cuts have actually been a positive for revenues to the treasury. I can't imagine the difficulty we would be in if a Democrat had been responsible for even that one aspect. If you are complaining about the cost then all I can say is what did you think was going to be the result when you saw the World Trade Center pancaking into the ground. Surely you did not think we would just toss some money at internal security matters and be done with it. That would have left an awful lot of resources (Saddam was a major available resource) at the disposal of those who would do such a thing. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:06 PM Post #27 |
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I am the grey one
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jf, get a grip. We have always maintained that Saddam was playing footsie with Al Qaeda. What you have posted does not demonstrate anything having to do with Saddam being connected to 9/11. You are starting to waste my time, old buddy. And that is going to piss me off. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:09 PM Post #28 |
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Bull-Carp
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No way you are going to get pissed off on a Friday night. I know you better.... 60% of the American people thought Saddam was behind 9/11. How did they get there? Through the carefully worded remarks above. The intent was to justify the invasion.... jf |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:13 PM Post #29 |
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Bull-Carp
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The administration relentlessly tries to link Saddam to Al Qeada. The American public has just learned who Al Qeada is and knows it is responsible for 9/11. ERGO lots of people link Saddam to 9/11. This was obviously the reason the admin made the connection between Saddam and Al Qeada. Why else? JB, you are as smart as they come. Certainly you have to admit this much. Lets see you really use your brains and defend it??? jf |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:14 PM Post #30 |
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I am the grey one
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I said Jedi mind tricks don't count. If you cannot give an example of ANYONE in the Administration making a connection between Saddam and 9/11 then I don't care what 60% of the American people thought. It wouldn't surprise me that they gave that response just because Saddam was a name in the news so much. There are a whole bunch of people that think Elvis is still alive. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:15 PM Post #31 |
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I am the grey one
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Uh, because it was true? |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:22 PM Post #32 |
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Bull-Carp
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Then why did W and CH spend so much time trying to link Saddam with Al Qeada? Are you saying they were not trying to make people think Saddam was responsible for 9/11? If you asnwer YES, they why were they beating that drum repeatedly leading up t the invasion of Iraq? Apart from 9/11, any contact between Al Qeada and Iraq seems minor and random. Why bring it up repeatedly? jf |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:24 PM Post #33 |
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Bull-Carp
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I thought (among other things) this is going to cost us. I did not think...this is not going to cost us a penny but my daughter will pay dearly for this. jf |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:25 PM Post #34 |
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Bull-Carp
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Whatever that means, if i were capable of it, you would be toast! jf |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:26 PM Post #35 |
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I am the grey one
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Because of 9/11 any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda is compelling. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| OperaTenor | Sep 8 2006, 08:28 PM Post #36 |
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Pisa-Carp
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What of the statistic that came out a couple of months ago showing ~90% of troops in Iraq believed Saddam was connected to 9/11? More Jedi mind tricks? |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:28 PM Post #37 |
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Bull-Carp
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And that is what justified the invasion? And you maintain W had no idea 60% of the American public would end up believing Saddam was behind 9/11? And i suppose you think Rove would never consider such a calculus???? jf |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 08:29 PM Post #38 |
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Bull-Carp
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Clearly I have more power than i imagined....got to research this.... jf |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:40 PM Post #39 |
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I am the grey one
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Again, post a citation from any Administration official that Saddam was connected to 9/11. You can cite polls of what people believe about the connection between Saddam and 9/11 all you like but that does not amount to a lie by the Bush administration. It may amount to a demonstration of the innate wisdom of the American people and awesomely so with respect to our troops but it is not responsive to my specific challenge. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:43 PM Post #40 |
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I am the grey one
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Jack, please, a connection between Saddam and 9/11 was never cited by the Administration or the long line of Congressional Democrats who made a case for the invasion of Iraq. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Ben | Sep 8 2006, 08:53 PM Post #41 |
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Senior Carp
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Would you two please both quit insisting the other answer your question? For some reason JB you keep insisting that JF talk about outright intentional lies and JF you keep insisting that JB talk about intimations. If you would both admit the other's right I think we can move on.
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| Larry | Sep 8 2006, 08:57 PM Post #42 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Ben, would you stop sticking your nose into every debate telling people what to do? |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 08:58 PM Post #43 |
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I am the grey one
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I think jf got the ball rolling by talking about lies. So far, I have not been asked to demonstrate anything. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Ben | Sep 8 2006, 09:05 PM Post #44 |
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Senior Carp
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Fair enough, JB, but I don't see any reason to ignore what JF has been saying about intimations, not jedi mind tricks. And the same goes for JF who as you pointed out did start by claiming they lied and then revised his statement. |
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 09:12 PM Post #45 |
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I am the grey one
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Show me Bush lies. I have offered that challenge ad infinitum on this forum and its illustrious predecessor and I have yet to find anyone to meet that challenge. As I said before, Jedi mind tricks don't count. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Ben | Sep 8 2006, 09:20 PM Post #46 |
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Senior Carp
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You're not going to find an administration official lying flat-out about Iraq. You will find some rather unfortunate predictions about what the war would hold that some claim can't count as lies because they were predicting the future - I disagree, but fine. You will also find clear intimations intended to make the link in the American peoples' heads as amply evidenced by JF. Call it whatever you want but it was a definite strategy on the part of Rove & Co. and it worked. It's way after midnight and I'm getting up in the morning. goodnight. |
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 09:24 PM Post #47 |
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I am the grey one
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Once again, Bush lies, put up or shut up. Geez, it was never this hard with Clinton. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| George K | Sep 9 2006, 04:52 AM Post #48 |
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Finally
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Ed Morrissey Writes: I've found one interesting nugget already. In the WMD accuracy report, a significant passage demonstrates the falsity of one leftist talking point (page 16, emphases mine): On February 4, 2003, the U.S. government provided copies of the Niger uranium documents to the IAEA with talking points which stated, "two streams of reporting suggest Iraq has attempted to acquire uranium from Niger. We cannot confirm these reports and have questions regarding specific claims. Nonetheless, we are concerned that these reports may indicate Baghdad has attempted to secure an unreported source of uranium yellowcake for a nuclear weapons program." The two streams of reporting refer to the intelligence reports from the foreign intelligence service and a CIA intelligence report reflecting the findings of a former Ambassador's visit to Niger. This confirms what we read in the previous SSCI report: Joe Wilson told the CIA that Iraq had attempted to buy uranium from Niger, and the CIA included that data in its assessment of Iraqi nuclear-weapons development. It corroborated rather than contradicted CIA intel on Saddam's WMD ambitions. That flies in the face of Wilson's assertions since May 2003, when he apparently decided he needed to cover his ass after American troops came up empty on nukes. In fact, when one reads pages 11-16, it becomes apparent that almost the entire American intelligence community believed that Saddam continued to pursue nukes right up until we invaded in March 2003 -- especially the CIA. They argued that the aluminum tubes had to be intended for a nuclear program and that no other explanation could be possible. The INR (State) and Department of Energy quibbled; the former believed that the intel could not provide a "compelling" case for reconstitution, while the latter believed that the case was compelling without the tubes, which it questioned. The CIA not only did not question the nature of the tubes, it provided a counteranalysis when the IAEA argued against their interpretation: ["]We judge that Iraq would use any suitable tubes rather than try to procure perfect ones." The paper reiterated the CIA's assessment that the tubes' special material, dimensions, precise manufacturing tolerances, high cost, and the involvement of senior Iraqi leaders indicated the tubes were most likely for gas centrifuges to enrich uranium. Over and over again, the CIA and the rest of the American intelligence community told the Bush administration what it had told the Clinton administration -- that Saddam was busily reconstituting his nuclear-weapons programs. Even the INR judged that the evidence could have demonstrated a limited reconstitution effort. Joe Wilson's report fed into that narrative by showing that Iraq had actively sought sources for yellowcake uranium after the IAEA and UNSCOM had locked up their own supplies. Rather than showing that Bush lied about the intel he was given, this shows that the White House relied on a broad consensus among military and civilian intelligence services to determine that Saddam Hussein was pursuing nukes. The only liar uncovered in the beginning of the Phase II report is Joe Wilson. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 9 2006, 05:22 AM Post #49 |
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Bull-Carp
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Shall we call them "miscues" rather than lies? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6192327/site/newsweek/ jf |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 9 2006, 05:25 AM Post #50 |
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Bull-Carp
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Q: Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States in to another preemptive military action? BUSH: I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us, Jim, and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us. [George Bush, First Presidential Debate, 9/30/04] jf |
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