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| Coffee Room is only place...; that the Iraq war is still popular | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 8 2006, 06:43 AM (713 Views) | |
| QuirtEvans | Sep 8 2006, 08:40 AM Post #26 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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In another context, I believe I've said something very similar. And was chastised for it. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 8 2006, 09:03 AM Post #27 |
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MAMIL
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Yeah, right. Liberals argue what they're told to think, and conservatives argue because it's what they believe. It's just a happy coincidence that they all agree with each other. :rolleyes: |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jack Frost | Sep 8 2006, 09:05 AM Post #28 |
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Bull-Carp
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You think? jf |
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| ivorythumper | Sep 8 2006, 09:09 AM Post #29 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Gee, John, I didn't see you suggesting that Jingo's comment was out of whack
So maybe you can tell me what's the middle term between the environmentalists, the feminists, the socialists, the abortion lobby, the animal rights activists, the no nukes, the homosexuals, the Rainbow Coalition, etc -- apart from power politics. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Dewey | Sep 8 2006, 09:29 AM Post #30 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, I don't know if I'm an "outspoken" poster here, but I do "cling" to the idea that the Iraq war was the proper course of action given the information available at the time, the Iraqi refusal to comply with the terms of the cease-fire in the Gulf War, and their willingness to ally themselves with non-sovereign entities who have declared war on the US, and who are willing to fight proxy wars on behalf of supporting nation-states. And I can assure you that I'm not like a horse with blinders on, nor do I have any misperceptions of where the entire war on terror is likely headed. Neither am I under any misperceptions about the origins of the conflict, our ability to avoid it, or the correctness of fighting it. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| George K | Sep 8 2006, 09:34 AM Post #31 |
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Finally
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Nah, just pullin' Jolly's chain... |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Hobie | Sep 8 2006, 09:38 AM Post #32 |
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Junior Carp
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Dewey Having read your last post, it sounds like you are coming to a rational, well-thought out conclusion that stayng the course in Iraq is the best policy....right? I can respect that. I do not agree that we are going to accomplish the objectives, however. How many lives and how much money will the final bill for this war be? That's my biggest fear is that the 'stay the course" route will drag on for years and cost the US untold billions and thousands of lives. I have no crystal ball. I do not know the proper course of action. I see how complex this issue is and it just gets depressing to read/hear news about Americans dying. I do not think that the situation is improving in Iraq and I feel opposed to this continued slaughter...with no end in sight. For what it is worth...as an American...my vote will be for whoever is going to get us out of there. |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 8 2006, 09:40 AM Post #33 |
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MAMIL
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Both right and left wings are full of camp followers, that's the problem. I'm not including (or excluding) any present company in this, it's just a general observation. Maybe I'm a centrist :lol: |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| QuirtEvans | Sep 8 2006, 09:43 AM Post #34 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Maybe pigs can fly. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Dewey | Sep 8 2006, 09:59 AM Post #35 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No. I do not believe in staying the course in Iraq; I believe in decisively succeeding in Iraq. I do not believe that we are losing; I do not believe that we need to "escape;" I do not believe that we are best served by leaving before we have established a decisive victory, defined by the re-establishment of a stable sovereign state. I believe that at present, we are winning, but we aren't doing so decisively. Part of achieving a clear-cut success will take time, but that does not equate into simply continuing along the same path; "staying the course," status quo.
Then be prepared to have your biggest fear replaced by even bigger ones. The war in Iraq is just one part of the ongoing, unavoidable clash of Muslim and Western cultures, and which direction the world is going to head int he future. And the death toll in Iraq is a very small drop in what is going to be a very deep bucket before it's all over. It will indeed drag on for many years, and it will be even more years, and result in even more death, destruction, and suffering, if people use those aforementioned blinders to pretend that we're not engaged in a major, ongoing, world-defining struggle; not one of our making but one that we must fight.
There may indeed be a candidate whose policy will be to leave Iraq. Unfortunately, though, no candidate will have the ability to truly get us out of "there," since "there" isn't Iraq, it's the entire attack on Western culture by Muslim fanatacism/fascism. Not only that, but leaving Iraq prematurely will likely only keep us really "there" - i.e., involved in the larger struggle - longer, and more painfully so. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Hobie | Sep 8 2006, 10:01 AM Post #36 |
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Junior Carp
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Dewey Thank you for the most well-written summary of this mess I have read yet. You are a good writer. Is that your occupation? I am still pondering this issue |
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| Dewey | Sep 8 2006, 10:08 AM Post #37 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Other than here, most of what I write these days is just an intermediate step, ultimately ending up being spoken. Actually, that's not true... I'm literally writing a book as we speak. Doubt it will ever make the NYT Best-seller List, though. (just wrapping up a Project Manual, IT... )
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| apple | Sep 8 2006, 12:43 PM Post #38 |
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one of the angels
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very good Dewey, indeed. and might i add it is a long entrenched struggle.. also might i add that the success of capitalism on the world stage depends on our collective regulation of one the world's most valuable commodities. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Dewey | Sep 8 2006, 01:16 PM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Gin? |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Daniel\ | Sep 8 2006, 01:42 PM Post #40 |
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Fulla-Carp
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It might be your approach. |
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| apple | Sep 8 2006, 01:44 PM Post #41 |
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one of the angels
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i dunno.. Hobie seems a peaceful sort Daniel - happy birthday btw |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Sep 8 2006, 03:30 PM Post #42 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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IT,
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| JBryan | Sep 8 2006, 06:26 PM Post #43 |
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I am the grey one
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I see the left doing the same thing today asyou describe them doing in the past only the rock stars have been subsumed by bloggers and other pundits. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Sep 8 2006, 08:45 PM Post #44 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Yes there are plenty of Left bloggers, commentators, etc. I'm not saying there aren't. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| Ben | Sep 8 2006, 09:10 PM Post #45 |
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Senior Carp
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- Ben "Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington bennieloohoo@gmail.com Or you can just PM me.
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