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who wants the trash talk to stop; insulting people, etc.
Topic Started: Sep 7 2006, 08:04 PM (1,460 Views)
Optimistic
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HOLY CARP!!!
I always felt like Nina had the amazing ability to put up good, solid, civil arguments against the majority opinion around here, and still maintain the respect of those with whom she was arguing. Also, a lot of people seemed to jump in and say that they appreciate her contributions around here, and hoped that she'd stay.

PHOTOS

I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up.
- Mark Twain


We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
-T. S. Eliot
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John Jacob Jingoism Smith
Sep 9 2006, 02:02 PM
There's a different between a joke and a poke. There's a difference between a poke and an insult. There's a difference between an insult and a pile-on.

I can take your comment TomK as a joke. And an apt poke at the appropriate time can spice up conversation.

From Horace I get an insult to my intelligence, from Jolly a pile-on. Pretty much the kind of crap that motivated this thread to be started in the first place.

JJ: Jolly's :biggrin: was a "pile on"? :shrug: Seems a little OTT. I think someone needs a hug. :hug:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Sep 9 2006, 05:59 PM

JJ: Jolly's :biggrin: was a "pile on"? :shrug: Seems a little OTT. I think someone needs a hug. :hug:

I must admit--half the time I have no idea of what Jolly is talking about.

Ask him a question with a yes or no answer and it always ends up with a story about the time the "'possum met the 'gator." :D
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John Jacob Jingoism Smith
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Middle Aged Carp
Jolly laughs at me with Horace after Horace points out I'm stupid and immature. You don't get it?
Jingoism

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
John Jacob Jingoism Smith
Sep 9 2006, 02:25 PM
Jolly laughs at me with Horace after Horace points out I'm stupid and immature. You don't get it?

I was responding to this:

Quote:
 
Since this is not a poll about enacting any rules but simply about do you want the trash talk to stop, the conclusion seems to be that the voting majority actually prefers the aggression and negativity.

Why anyone would prefer to steep themselves in so much negativity is beyond me, but I guess it might explain a few things about underlying unhappiness and the readiness to assign fault to others.

Perhaps I have really come to the wrong place.


Which is a blanket condemnation of the, at last count, 21 people who voted they don't mind the trash talk.

It's a very clear more-mature-than-thou tsk-tsk type post followed by a threat to leave, both of which I find tedious. I responded to exactly that which was contained in your post and nothing else - your extrapolations that I find you stupid and immature are your own (and untrue).
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Jingo: I'd accept Horace's explanation. I don't know him well, but I don't recall him EVER uttering a harsh word or even a snipe against anyone regardless of the subject matter. I think he is a true gentleman.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John Jacob Jingoism Smith
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Middle Aged Carp
The trash talk IS aggressive and negative.

Many people here ARE steeped in it and constantly find fault, harangue and insult others. It's just a fact.

And I cannot believe that is coming from a place of happiness. There is something really spiritually wrong with people who focus so much time and energy on criticizing others.

You typed: "By all means, let this poll determine whether you like the message board rather than ... whether you actually like the message board."

That is the same as calling me stupid.

You also typed:"It's the mature thing to do."

OK, you have provided an alternative explanation to what that means. That you think I am acting "holier than thou". That's just a different kind of fault-finding, negativistic insult.

As to the comment about leaving, it's just the way I am feeling about it. I thought this place would be more a place of recreation, not negativity. Trash talking at the expense of others is negative. There's enough depressing crap in the world already.

Maybe not everyone who prefers the trash talk has the same motivation, but I have a hard time understanding why people prefer it, if the preference is not coming from a negative place.

Which is to say: Life is too short already.
Jingoism

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Personally I'm fascinated by people and I want them to be as honest as possible. I don't get the feeling personally that the "trash talkers" here find fault in others to any greater degree than the more self-policing members, one group just expresses it more easily and one doesn't.

(In fact I'd go so far as to say that being self-conscously polite and nice and civil at all times is an internal response to finding fault with others constantly and making a conscious choice to "never be like that".)
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
Horace
Sep 9 2006, 03:15 PM
Personally I'm fascinated by people and I want them to be as honest as possible. I don't get the feeling personally that the "trash talkers" here find fault in others to any greater degree than the more self-policing members, one group just expresses it more easily and one doesn't.

(In fact I'd go so far as to say that being self-conscously polite and nice and civil at all times is an internal response to finding fault with others constantly and making a conscious choice to "never be like that".)

Could you expland on your second paragraph? I'm interested in that but I didn't
quite understand it.

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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
This thead is heading to landfill; not sufficiently toxic or volatile enough for incineration. Nothing to recycle either- not even a beer can or whiskey bottle.

Call in the Teamsters. And BTW, where's Jimmy?
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Daniel\
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Fulla-Carp
John Jacob Jingoism Smith
Sep 9 2006, 02:54 PM
The trash talk IS aggressive and negative.

Many people here ARE steeped in it and constantly find fault, harangue and insult others. It's just a fact.

And I cannot believe that is coming from a place of happiness. There is something really spiritually wrong with people who focus so much time and energy on criticizing others.

You typed: "By all means, let this poll determine whether you like the message board rather than ... whether you actually like the message board."

That is the same as calling me stupid.

You also typed:"It's the mature thing to do."

OK, you have provided an alternative explanation to what that means. That you think I am acting "holier than thou". That's just a different kind of fault-finding, negativistic insult.

As to the comment about leaving, it's just the way I am feeling about it. I thought this place would be more a place of recreation, not negativity. Trash talking at the expense of others is negative. There's enough depressing crap in the world already.

Maybe not everyone who prefers the trash talk has the same motivation, but I have a hard time understanding why people prefer it, if the preference is not coming from a negative place.

Which is to say: Life is too short already.

JJJS,

I have been biting my tongue although as much in frustration as because I know
what I want to say.

The poll was started by a moderator- this fact and a reading of the first several
responses indicate that the issues about control and what people would want
ideally are being intertwined.

I offered my personal opinion in a thread started by a different moderator..
I guess it depends on the meaning of "want". If "want" means would I will it and
if "want" means- do I think it should- that's different.

I'm going to say that I think that it is very difficult and probably
not desirable- and certainly not possible in this forum to have an orthodoxy of
view or a conformity of behavior and one thing I know about internet forums and
I know it is true is that you cannot make everyone get along or stay or freeze
good will and shared belief in time forever.

It is of course your decision whether to post but I enjoy your posts and would
like you to stay. I would also have to tell you that debating whether to
stay or go rather in public is somewhat unfair in that it resembles a threat and
only to those people who would want you to stay.

I am not going to condemn other people for thier viewpoints and or limitations-
I have too much investment in my own freedom to have a point of view and too
many of my own limitations.

Life is too short. :tongue:

Daniel

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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Daniel
Sep 9 2006, 03:22 PM
Horace
Sep 9 2006, 03:15 PM
Personally I'm fascinated by people and I want them to be as honest as possible.  I don't get the feeling personally that the "trash talkers" here find fault in others to any greater degree than the more self-policing members, one group just expresses it more easily and one doesn't.

(In fact I'd go so far as to say that being self-conscously polite and nice and civil at all times is an internal response to finding fault with others constantly and making a conscious choice to "never be like that".)

Could you expland on your second paragraph? I'm interested in that but I didn't
quite understand it.

I'm already pretty bored with myself but I'll just say that if you get enough of these self-consciously polite nice people together for long enough, you get a stagnant message board that's more of a support group, that has nothing to offer anybody who doesn't enjoy wallowing in the "emotional support" of others. I'll leave finding real-life examples of such a message board as an exercise for the reader. :)
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
AlbertaCrude
Sep 9 2006, 03:23 PM
This thead is heading to landfill; not sufficiently toxic or volatile enough for incineration. Nothing to recycle either- not even a beer can or whiskey bottle.

Call in the Teamsters. And BTW, where's Jimmy?

He's in the same place as the last guy who found the "where's jimmy hoffa" joke funny - long dead of old age.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Jane D'Oh
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Fulla-Carp
AlbertaCrude
Sep 9 2006, 07:23 PM
This thead is heading to landfill; not sufficiently toxic or volatile enough for incineration. Nothing to recycle either- not even a beer can or whiskey bottle.

:biggrin:
Pfft.
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katie
Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Personally I'm fascinated by people and I want them to be as honest as possible.   I don't get the feeling personally that the "trash talkers" here find fault in others to any greater degree than the more self-policing members, one group just expresses it more easily and one doesn't.

(In fact I'd go so far as to say that being self-conscously polite and nice and civil at all times is an internal response to finding fault with others constantly and making a conscious choice to "never be like that".)


Quote:
 
I'm already pretty bored with myself but I'll just say that if you get enough of these self-consciously polite nice people together for long enough, you get a stagnant message board that's more of a support group, that has nothing to offer anybody who doesn't enjoy wallowing in the "emotional support" of others.  I'll leave finding real-life examples of such a message board as an exercise for the reader. :)

Actually Horace Dude ...

I think I agree with ya...
If there's something I really hate it's sacharin sweet cyber sweeties & the politically polite pixel personas. Way too cotton candy for me.
I like people to be honest and say what they think, in whatever way they find appropriate. I like when real personalities reveal themselves with emotional words. I can handle the trash .. So what. There's little difference in real life. I'm polite, sincere & all but I'm also a bit of a voyeur here ... And if people want to make arses of themselves .. Heh .. Whatever. It's for my & others' entertainment I suppose.
One of the things I loved about this place was that people could get all reved up, then they'd crash & burn, just to recharge & do it all over again.
JMO ..

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Daniel
Sep 9 2006, 04:39 PM

The poll was started by a moderator- this fact and a reading of the first several
responses indicate that the issues about control and what people would want
ideally are being intertwined.

I offered my personal opinion in a thread started by a different moderator..
I guess it depends on the meaning of "want". If "want" means would I will it and
if "want" means- do I think it should- that's different.

It did not occur to me that a moderator started the thread, it was just little sweet Apple who is concerned about the tone. I don't consider these moderators as hall monitors or watchdogs, they are mostly here to take out the trash, give the bum's rush to trolls, and clean up when someone vomits in our living room.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
katie
Sep 9 2006, 04:34 PM
If there's something I really hate it's sacharin sweet cyber sweeties & the  politically polite pixel personas.  Way too cotton candy for me.  I like people to be honest and say what they think, in whatever way they find appropriate. 

I like when real personalities reveal themselves with emotional words.   I can handle the trash .. So what.  It's no different in real life. 
One of the things I loved about this place was that people could get all reved up, then they'd crash & burn, just to recharge & do it all over again.

I agree with Katie.

I like people being real and not holding back.

When I don't care for something try to I just ignore it. - Unless I feel like dancing too. ;)

Life's too long.
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John Jacob Jingoism Smith
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Middle Aged Carp
I hope no one here is suggesting I'm overly polite, saccharine, or don't say what I mean.

But there are ways of discussing controversial issues without resorting to ugliness, bellowing, ad hominem attacks, domineering language, insults, presumption of superiority/inferiority, etc. I thought it is this latter category this Subject pertains to. People here LIKE that stuff??

Jingoism

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
John Jacob Jingoism Smith
Sep 9 2006, 04:53 PM
I hope no one here is suggesting I'm overly polite, saccharine, or don't say what I mean.

But there are ways of discussing controversial issues without resorting to ugliness, bellowing, ad hominem attacks, domineering language, insults, presumption of superiority/inferiority, etc. I thought it is this latter category this Subject  pertains to. People here LIKE that stuff??

I don't *like* it.

But I don't let it knock me off my bicycle.

Look for the good.
Ignore the bad.

There's a lot of good here.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Personally, I don't mind ugliness per se, and I don't mind a certain amount of bellowing and spear-waving. I savor well-crafted sarcasm like some people enjoy a fine wine or a quality cigar. I obviously don't have any problem with bluntly disagreeing with someone else.

What really sticks in my craw is when it goes personal - when the comments stray away from the actual topic and are aimed at another person's core worth as a person. When your words say, "because of what you believe, you are worthless as an individual - all you deserve is scorn and insult." That's where I draw the line - or at least where I try to. To me, anything up to that line, no matter how "loudly" it's typed, is in fair territory. But no one should cross that line of devaluing the other person's intrinsic value. I know that's corny, but that's life in Deweyland.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
katie
Sep 9 2006, 04:34 PM

Actually Horace Dude ...

I think I agree with ya...
If there's something I really hate it's sacharin sweet cyber sweeties & the politically polite pixel personas. Way too cotton candy for me.
I like people to be honest and say what they think, in whatever way they find appropriate. I like when real personalities reveal themselves with emotional words. I can handle the trash .. So what. There's little difference in real life. I'm polite, sincere & all but I'm also a bit of a voyeur here ... And if people want to make arses of themselves .. Heh .. Whatever. It's for my & others' entertainment I suppose.
One of the things I loved about this place was that people could get all reved up, then they'd crash & burn, just to recharge & do it all over again.
JMO ..

:thumb:
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apple
one of the angels
a fruitful discussion.

i'm glad we like Freedom and personal responsibility
it behooves me to behold
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
So I return to my original question: "So what's your point" [of this thread/poll]?




... the thread topic is so ephemeral> :D
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
apple
Sep 9 2006, 05:38 PM
a fruitful discussion.


Hey Lady! :veryangry:

Are you calling me a fruit? :weeping:

YOU should talk, apple!


:lol:
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
FWIW--Being nice and PC to everyone is what the WTF is all about--and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just makes for a different kind of Forum.

Some people can post "nicely" all day with giving it a thought--but other's have to be continually looking over their sholder. The discussion--at least for me--is much, much more interesting when people can say whatever they want as the thought hits them.

TNCR is just fine the way it is, best we not f*** with it. :D

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