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| McCain - Lieberman '08?; Michael Barone says unbeatable | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 12 2006, 05:53 AM (279 Views) | |
| George K | Aug 12 2006, 05:53 AM Post #1 |
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Finally
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A McCain-Lieberman ticket? Columnist, blogger, novelist, and Army Reserve Col. Austin Bay (has anyone else ever had those credentials?) calls for a McCain-Lieberman ticket in 2008. A Republican McCain-Lieberman ticket. Is that a fantasy? It strikes me as less improbable than the Kerry-McCain ticket MainStream Media reporters touted in 2004. McCain and Lieberman are friends, with a more cordial relationship now than Lieberman probably has with all but a few of his Democratic colleagues, who are busy endorsing this week's primary winner Ned Lamont (as they pretty much have to do) and adding gratuitous comments (as Harry Reid and Charles Schumer did in their press release) about how Lieberman has been too cozy with George W. Bush. McCain and Lieberman have also been allies on important issues, on campaign finance regulation (cynically signed by Bush), on response to alleged climate change (where they stand opposite Bush), and on the war on terrorism and specifically the conflict in Iraq (on which they have been utterly steadfast). Not all these stands are congenial to most Republican voters, of course. Economic conservatives don't like their stand on climate change; partisan conservatives (and First Amendment purists) don't like their stand on campaign finance. And, of course, Republicans can hardly fail to have noticed that Lieberman has voted about 90 percent of the time with Democrats, on issue after issue; they've been noting that as they castigate Democrats for their rejection of a party paragon. They won't be entirely comfortable about putting a Democrat one heartbeat away from the presidency--the heartbeat of a man who would be 72 when and if he were to take the oath of office. Still, I can see some solid arguments for a McCain-Lieberman ticket. First, it's only possible if Lieberman beats Ned Lamont in November--as I think he probably will. In which case, he will be bereft of obligations to the Senate Democratic leadership and can vote against them on party-line issues as often as he wants. Which will probably be a lot more often than in 2001-04, when he was preparing to run in the Democratic caucuses and primaries, and in 2005-06, when he hoped to avoid defeat in the Democratic primary. So Lieberman's likely to be less objectionable to conservatives. And, of course, when the president and vice president disagree, the vice president loses by a vote of 1 to 0. Second, a McCain-Lieberman ticket would seem, and would be, a sharp departure from the harsh partisanship of which American voters, however partisan they may be individually, are surely tired. George W. Bush was, I think, sincere when he promised to try to bring a new mood to Washington. But after the Florida controversy, and the bitterness of Democrats over the result, he could not do so. McCain and Lieberman could argue plausibly that they could. Third, a McCain-Lieberman ticket, however nonconservative on some issues, would be solidly committed to a vigorous prosecution of the war against terrorism. This issue unites the two of them as no other and so would help make that the central issue of the campaign. And an issue on which McCain-Lieberman would probably have a huge advantage over any possible Democratic ticket. Fourth, McCain-Lieberman would probably win easily. Pollster Scott Rasmussen has paired McCain and Rudy Giuliani against both Hillary Rodham Clinton and Al Gore in 26 states (subscription required).www.rasmussenreports.com I'm prohibited by membership agreement from disclosing the results, but I think I can say that both McCain and Giuliani run far ahead of both Clinton and Gore--and at a time when Republicans are not doing well in polling for 2006 races. McCain-Lieberman might run behind Bush-Cheney in the South, but that would still leave them ahead in most if not all of the region; they would probably run well ahead of Bush-Cheney on both coasts and would be competitive in many states where Bush-Cheney wasn't. Fifth, a McCain-Lieberman ticket could claim that it would govern without a view to political advantage. If it won, McCain would take office at 72; it would not be obvious that he would run for re-election (Ronald Reagan won re-election at 73). Lieberman, as a lifelong Democrat, would not be considered a candidate for a Republican nomination in 2012 or 2016 (at which points he would be 70 and 74). That would allow Lieberman, as it has allowed Dick Cheney, the ability to be a useful and active vice president with no concern about his personal political prospects. Sure, this is all speculation. It's by no means certain that McCain will win the Republican nomination; he trails Giuliani in most polls now, and he may prove anathema to Republican primary voters as he did in 2000. It's not certain that Lieberman will win this November. It's not certain that Republicans would stomach a Lieberman nomination. We've never had an example of the same candidate running for vice president on two parties' tickets (although Theodore Roosevelt was elected president as a Republican in 1904 and ran for president as a Progressive in 1912; John C. Breckinridge was elected vice president as a Democrat in 1856 and then was nominated for president by a breakaway Southern Democratic convention in 1860; Henry Wallace was elected vice president as a Democrat in 1940 and ran for president as a Progressive in 1948). Anyway, it's an interesting idea--and remember that you read about it first here, or, rather, from Austin Bay. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| kentcouncil | Aug 12 2006, 06:39 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Does anyone know what the status is with McCain's melanoma? That alone may submarine his candidacy for Presidency. He's had recurrences, but I have no idea what stage his most recent recurrence was. |
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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't. - P.G. Wodehouse | |
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| apple | Aug 12 2006, 06:39 AM Post #3 |
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one of the angels
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George? |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| George K | Aug 12 2006, 06:57 AM Post #4 |
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Finally
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I've said this before, and I'll repeat. I'll be surprised if he survives the decade. Almost every recent photo you see of him is taken with the right side of his face showing. If you're lucky enough to catch a shot of the left side, you'll see a very, very conspicuous bulge in his cheek that gets bigger every time I see it. He has had two procedures on it, the last one necessitating a skin graft which is obvious in some photos, but usually well covered with makeup. The other thing that is telling is to watch how he is speaking. He does not open his mouth, rather talking throug almost clenched teeth. It indicates that the tumor is not only recurrent, but growing into the masseter muscle (the one that closes your jaw). This is serious, and will eventually affect his ability to speak, eat, and ultimately breathe. He will, unfortunately, end up with a feeding tube and tracheostomy. I'l sure that bachophile knows more than I do about this, so I'll see what he has to say.... |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Aug 12 2006, 07:09 AM Post #5 |
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Fulla-Carp
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An interesting theory about a McCain/Liberman ticket. However, McCain has destroyed any chance he had of winning a general election when he chose to grovel at the feet of Jerry Fallwell. And if Liberman is the man of convictions that he claims to be, switching to the GOP with all of its views on social issues which are anathema to Lieberman would show Joe to be a hypocrite. I don;lt think Joe wants to fgo the way of Colin Powell, also a political leader who prided himself on his integrity and then sold it out. Also, 2008 will be a year in whioch someone who is tough on terrorism will win -- not someone who is in favor of tthe Iraq war, which has little if anything to do with terrorism. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| George K | Aug 12 2006, 07:11 AM Post #6 |
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Finally
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Tell that to |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| The 89th Key | Aug 12 2006, 08:39 AM Post #7 |
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You should try out for "Last Comic Standing". You're funny! :lol: |
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| Daniel\ | Aug 12 2006, 01:30 PM Post #8 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Of course! Since Lieberman was not involved in those events! ![]() |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 12 2006, 01:35 PM Post #9 |
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MAMIL
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One thing I can give you a cast-iron guarantee of. Every single blessed one of the people who run in 2008 will be so enormously hard on terrorism you'll be amazed that there's a single terrorist left standing. Of course, talk's cheap. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| David Burton | Aug 12 2006, 01:56 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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Lieberman would have to get himself re-elected first. |
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| George K | Aug 12 2006, 01:59 PM Post #11 |
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Finally
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Do you think so? He has credibility (even if he's not holding office), a wide appeal to the non-anti-war wing of the Democrats (he voted with his party 90% of the time), and national recognition. Being a Senator may give more clout, but being a former Senator wouldn't be far behind, I'd guess. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| David Burton | Aug 12 2006, 02:14 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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Yeah it matters. Look, let's say I have so much money that for me writing a check for $1K is the same as one for a buck. Someone comes to me asking for a contribution on a plausible candidacy where the ticket has a chance to win. They tell me they have the GOP delegations in their pockets. The Dems are going to put up someone scarier than Hillary or Hillary. If they put up Hillary, then whether Joe wins or not become very important, particularly as everyone assumes that Hillary will be re-elected. So since we don't yet know that the Dems will put up someone scarier than Hillary, Joe must win, and if he's able to do it as an independent, it will help bring out the Independents, many of whom would vote for him. |
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| QuirtEvans | Aug 12 2006, 09:54 PM Post #13 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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It doesn't matter whether Lieberman wins. Being able to command 51% of the vote in the State of Connecticut is not indicative of national stature or the way the larger population would perceive him as McCain's VP candidate. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| bachophile | Aug 13 2006, 05:24 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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sorry but not following every post. mccain's hx is...a melanoma removed in 1993, (dont know the specifics..) in 2000, he had 2 lesions removed, one on his arm which was in situ, meaning very small and early and with an almost 99% cure rate with excision. the other on his temple, which was at least 1 mm thick, because he had a sentinel lymph node dissection, which is done on lesions > 1mm which is considered moderatley advanced. however, the LN dissection was negative so he is probably stage 1b, which would still give him a 90% 5 year survival. then in 2002 he had another in situ lesion removed from his nose. so all in all, he has 4 lesions, 2 or 3 in situ, probably cured, and one on the temple which is more problematic. that one needed a wide excision of at least 2 cm each side, which is why he would have had a skin graft. my guess is that the wide excision bagged his facial nerve and thats why he has masseter paralysis. george if indeed he has a recurrence on his face, and i havent seen any evidence that he has....then he is f*cked and can forget about any presdential aspirations because a recurrent melanoma invading tissue on his face is a death sentence within the year and that doesnt seem to be in the media, so i would guess its just some facial nerve paralysis. george, in case u forgot the acronym for the branches of the facial nerve, its... Ten Zebras Bit My Ass T-Temporal Z-Zygomatic B-Buccal (mccain's problem) M-Mandibular A-Auricular |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| George K | Aug 13 2006, 05:49 AM Post #15 |
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Finally
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Two Zebras Bit My C(insert whatever word is appropriate) cadaver rooster etc. Temporal Zygomatic Buccal Mandibular Cochlear is how I learned it, when the earth was only 60% of the size it is now.
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| bachophile | Aug 13 2006, 06:27 AM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i think the C would be cervical which is the same as auricular, going down behind ear to neck...(and then of course the ten zebras would be biting...lets just say female or male genitalia...) the cochlear nerve leaves the pons and directly enters the internal acoustic meatus inferior to the facial nerve. (sorry, but that one i had to look up....) |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| George K | Aug 13 2006, 07:16 AM Post #17 |
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Finally
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javascript:emoticon(':doh:') Sigh - 35 year old memories. You're right! I'm an idiot. But, you knew that. And I also knew that the cochlear/vestibular nerve is in the brainstem. (I was going to be a neurologist at one tim). |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Nina | Aug 13 2006, 07:50 AM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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It's good to know that as I long suspected, medical doctors are so, um, dignified.
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| George K | Aug 13 2006, 08:50 AM Post #19 |
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Finally
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"Scared Lovers Try Positions That They Can't Handle" Bones of the Wrist "Oh, Oh Oh! To touch and feel a g**** v*****! Ah! Cranial Nerves There are many others. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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