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The Only Thing We Have To Fear....
Topic Started: Aug 11 2006, 04:04 PM (1,023 Views)
Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
George K
Aug 12 2006, 12:30 PM
British police find martyrdom video
Peter Wilson, Europe correspondent
August 12, 2006


Good.

Try 'em, and if found guilty (sounds like they will be, and the British court system has a good rep despite their rather peculair choice of hair style), hang 'em high.

Until then however, the crime is "alleged".
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Given the context of the diatribe screed editorial that Rick posted, the "alleged" seems to be used rhetorically to cast doubt on the veracity of the whole affair. We've already seen other postings from the Left about how this whole event has been politicized by the White House -- that is right out of the playbook. Perhaps it is sloppy journalistic shorthand, but there are other more neutral words such as "apparent".

It is an apparent plot, if an alleged crime.

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Amazing how a thread about the use of fear of terrorism after this past week for political purposes has turned into an attack on the NYT and attack on the Constitutional requirements that surveillance should be done in accordance with the law.

The NYT was not involved at all in this and the surveillance done by the US was done with a warrant. So, neither of these topics are even tangentially pertinent to the subject.

I never cease to be amazed at how well the conservatives who support Bush at every turn are at being able to high jack a thread so they need not talk about the real subject.

My hat is off to all of you! You have sucessfully made sure that no one focuses on Bush's and Cheney's cynical use of fear to get votes. Hijacking well done!
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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The 89th Key
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Rick, did you ignore my post?
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
The 89th Key
Aug 12 2006, 01:16 PM
Rick, did you ignore my post?

Which one, Isaac?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
Aug 12 2006, 01:15 PM
Amazing how a thread about the use of fear of terrorism after this past week for political purposes has turned into an attack on the NYT and attack on the Constitutional requirements that surveillance should be done in accordance with the law.

The NYT was not involved at all in this and the surveillance done by the US was done with a warrant. So, neither of these topics are even tangentially pertinent to the subject.

I never cease to be amazed at how well the conservatives who support Bush at every turn are at being able to high jack a thread so they need not talk about the real subject.

My hat is off to all of you! You have sucessfully made sure that no one focuses on Bush's and Cheney's cynical use of fear to get votes. Hijacking well done!

Rcik, don't be obtuse. You asked "If it were in this country, why could this not have been done with a secret court warrant?", and then try to plead that it was hijacked when I responded to your question if this were done in the US.

If you don't want an answer don't ask a question. It's really that simple.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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The 89th Key
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Rick Zimmer
Aug 12 2006, 04:16 PM
The 89th Key
Aug 12 2006, 01:16 PM
Rick, did you ignore my post?

Which one, Isaac?

Quote:
 
Rick Zimmer
Aug 12 2006, 11:28 AM
As I asked when I started this thread ....

You don't think Bush would cynically use the British success at foiling terrorists for partisan political purposes, do you?

Rick, Bush has been consistent on this. He is fighting the war against terrorists, with a pro-active stance. You may not agree with him, but he SURE AS HELL isn't doing this for poll numbers. He keeps sliding in the polls because he sticks to what he said 5 years ago. This is not going to be an easy or quick battle, but a necessary one. He said he wont stop until he's done everything he can or until the job is done. He keeps losing popularity points for this (quite frankly, because of the lack of resolve that many Americans have now...), so for him to highlight how the Brits (and the help of US intelligence agencies, btw) stopped an attack worse than 9/11, as a major victory against the war on terror...isn't politics. It's reality.

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AlbertaCrude
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John D'Oh
Aug 12 2006, 11:50 AM
George K
Aug 12 2006, 03:43 PM
John, isn't there a difference (I can't remember where I heard it) in the British and US ways of "suspecting" someone?  In the US you have to have "probable cause," whereas in England you only need "likely suspicion" (or something like that). The burden on the law enforcement community is completely different.

To be honest, I don't know. Any British people here with half a brain?

In Canada "likely suspicion" is all that required to detain someone. Until 1982 the police could enter and search private property on the grounds of likely suspicion without a warrant. Now a warrant must be obtained in most, but not all cases (the Anti-Terrorist Act for one), but "likely suspicion" remains all a judge needs to issue a police warrant.

We also have another means of serach and seizure that I really like: Writ of Assistance

The Writ of Assistance is a special type of search warrant, issued under the authority of any one of four federal statutes: Customs Act, Excise Act, Narcotics Control Act, and the Food and Drugs Act. It:

Can be issued only by a Judge of the Exchequer Court, but requires no judicial decision of that judge.

Once issued, may lawfully be used until the person to whom it was issued (usually an RCMP officer) has died or retired.

Writs issued under the various Acts are limited in their use to the specific areas authorized by the four statutes.

Writs may be executed in any part of Canada, and in some cases may be transferred from one officer to another in the same Department without even a name change.

The officer executing the Writ has authority to take whatever assistance and to use whatever physical force he or she judges necessary. There is no statutory requirement that property damaged or destroyed in a search must be repaired or restored.

Writs that authorize searches for narcotics or controlled drugs also give limitless power to search all persons found on the premises.

There is no restriction as to date, time, or place of search.


That should make a few US legal eagles and ALCU types roll over in bed.

I suspect the UK is similar.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
I think that fear is sometimes a very legitimate issue in an election, as opposed to being a "cynical" ploy.

Of course, sometimes fear can be used cynically by politicians. Rick, I'm sure as a child you remember the television commercial...

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George K
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Finally
AlbertaCrude
Aug 12 2006, 03:52 PM
Writs that authorize searches for narcotics or controlled drugs also give limitless power to search all persons found on the premises.

There is no restriction as to date, time, or place of search.


That should make a few US legal eagles and ALCU types roll over in bed.

Well, you poor oppressed Brits (and Brit wannabees!). I guess because your rights are being trampled upon (hey, it's in OUR constitution), we'll just have to invade and set you free.

(where the hell is that (sarcasm) emoticon???)
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Regime change it is! Enough of those wimpy Windsors.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
George K
Aug 12 2006, 01:46 PM
AlbertaCrude
Aug 12 2006, 03:52 PM
Writs that authorize searches for narcotics or controlled drugs also give limitless power to search all persons found on the premises.

There is no restriction as to date, time, or place of search.


That should make a few US legal eagles and ALCU types roll over in bed.

Well, you poor oppressed Brits (and Brit wannabees!). I guess because your rights are being trampled upon (hey, it's in OUR constitution), we'll just have to invade and set you free.

(where the hell is that (sarcasm) emoticon???)

Opressed? :lol2: Hell no. I think the Writ of Assistance its perfectly reasonable and expedient. You should have the same privilege.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Rick Zimmer
Aug 12 2006, 02:15 PM
Amazing how a thread about the use of fear of terrorism after this past week for political purposes has turned into an attack on the NYT and attack on the Constitutional requirements that surveillance should be done in accordance with the law.

The NYT was not involved at all in this and the surveillance done by the US was done with a warrant. So, neither of these topics are even tangentially pertinent to the subject.

I never cease to be amazed at how well the conservatives who support Bush at every turn are at being able to high jack a thread so they need not talk about the real subject.

My hat is off to all of you! You have sucessfully made sure that no one focuses on Bush's and Cheney's cynical use of fear to get votes. Hijacking well done!

Cynical use of fear?

Would somebody tell Rick there is a war going on?

One, that if I had my druthers, I'd sincerely like to win? And aprt of winning any war is morale?

Seems to me that Rick's idea of building morale would be for Ike to assemble the Airborne troops before Normandy and explain to them exactly what the KIA and WIA figures would be, right before offering them condolences...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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