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The Only Thing We Have To Fear....
Topic Started: Aug 11 2006, 04:04 PM (1,025 Views)
ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Steve Miller
Aug 12 2006, 10:38 AM


It's not a valid term.  The "War on Terror" is not a war at all.  It has no beginning, and it will have no end.  Neither is "War on Poverty".  Neither is  "War on Drugs".

Then you should tell the folks at the War College that they are misusing the term when they teach courses on asymmetrical warfare.

I don't see duration as having anything to do with the validity of the term. From OED:

Quote:
 
I. 1.    a. Hostile contention by means of armed forces, carried on between nations, states, or rulers, or between parties in the same nation or state; the employment of armed forces against a foreign power, or against an opposing party in the state

    b. transf. and fig. Applied poet. or rhetorically to any kind of active hostility or contention between living beings, or of conflict between opposing forces or principles.


It certainly seems valid, esp as 1.b. but even as 1.a.

Do you object to the use because it is not against a nation or a state? It seems the key idea has more to do with active hostilities and militant actions than with international recognition as a "state" or a "nation".

What else would you call it when a foreign organization is attacking your country?

As far as I can tell, the objection to the term is from the Left who want these attacks to be considered on a purely criminal basis and thereby to take the authority away from the military into the criminal court system.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
After looking at this thread, I do find it pretty odd that:

a) A group of people plot to blow planes up filled up with innocent people and somebody says that 'Bush is as near to Satan as any man who's walked the earth'. I guess I'm waiting for the announcement that it was Bush masterminding the bombings.

b) A group of people plot to blow up planes filled with innocent people, and unless I'm misreading it, some people here seem to be concerned that maybe the British interfered with their civil rights by having the audacity to spy on the scumbags.

The Public has a right to know? The reason that MI5 is often called the 'Secret Service' is because they like to do things in secret. I know many people think that most counter-terrorism in Britain is carried out by a policeman wearing a hat that looks like a woman's breast and riding a bicycle, but I'm sorry to tell you it isn't so.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
I'm think the same as you John- especially your point b. It's a common trait among US liberals and leftists that it is their duty to meddle in the internal affairs of other countries. They seem to think it is only they who have the yardstick by which to measure to freedom and liberty of others.
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Number 6
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Junior Carp
John D'Oh
Aug 12 2006, 10:47 AM
The Public has a right to know?

Yes, it does. Only through an informed electorate can we be assured that our Constitutionally guaranteed rights are not trampled upon. As someone said elsewhere, it tends to be "pesky." But until the 4th amendment is repealed, that's the way it is.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Utter rubbish No. 6.
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Mikhailoh
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Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 02:58 PM

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

I don't see anything in there about the right to conduct murderous activities via public utility.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Number 6
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Junior Carp
AlbertaCrude
Aug 12 2006, 11:01 AM
Utter rubbish No. 6.

This is precisely why the New York Times was so courageous in revealing the illegal NSA and SWIFT programs. Despite the fact that Bush and his cronies put huge pressure on them, they agreed that the public's right to know overrode the Bush penchant for secrecy - one of the most secretive administrations of recent times, I may add.
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man.
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George K
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Finally
Amazing. Simply amazing.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
It's a common trait among US liberals and leftists that it is their duty to meddle in the internal affairs of other countries.


It's bad enough that they feel compelled to meddle in the internal affairs of their own.

^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
New York Times <====> courageous


No... I'm not seeing the parallel.


New York Times <====> Trying like bloody hell to print ANYTHING that might sell more newspapers


Okay, that one I see.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Number 6
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Junior Carp
Dewey
Aug 12 2006, 11:09 AM
New York Times <====> courageous
No... I'm not seeing the parallel.

On two occasions, the New York Times was called by the White House and asked not to publish stories with potential legal implicataions and constitutional transgressions. Even the Publisher of the Times said that the Bush adminsitration leaned pretty hard on them to stop.

Courageous?

I think so.
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
That hardly meets my definition of courageous. A few other words, maybe, but "courageous" isn't even on the list of possibilities.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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George K
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Finally
Dewey
Aug 12 2006, 02:18 PM
A few other words, maybe

Arrogant
Self-aggrandizing
Traitorous
Ignorant

How's that for the start of a list?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Number 6
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Junior Carp
So, the President invites you to the Oval Office and says, "Have a seat, there's something I'd like to ask you."

You say, "With all due respect (heh!), Sir....No."

Who would have the cojones to do that? Courageous? I think so.
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 11:04 AM
AlbertaCrude
Aug 12 2006, 11:01 AM
Utter rubbish No. 6.

This is precisely why the New York Times was so courageous in revealing the illegal NSA and SWIFT programs. Despite the fact that Bush and his cronies put huge pressure on them, they agreed that the public's right to know overrode the Bush penchant for secrecy - one of the most secretive administrations of recent times, I may add.

Wrong. But keep spinning anyway. There might a job for you at the end of a drill string.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Plus, there's the thought that after a certain amount of spinning, even a diamond-tipped bit eventually wears itself out.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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The 89th Key
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Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 03:13 PM
Dewey
Aug 12 2006, 11:09 AM
New York Times <====> courageous
No... I'm not seeing the parallel.

On two occasions, the New York Times was called by the White House and asked not to publish stories with potential legal implicataions and constitutional transgressions. Even the Publisher of the Times said that the Bush adminsitration leaned pretty hard on them to stop.

Courageous?

I think so.

#6, why don't you post under your real name and not a sock puppets? :shrug:
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George K
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Finally
Steve Miller
Aug 12 2006, 12:53 PM
I had not heard that.

I hope the rest of the evidence is equally damning.

Here you go, Steve. It was in another thread.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...057-601,00.html

British police find martyrdom video
Peter Wilson, Europe correspondent
August 12, 2006

Terror's white convert: Abdul Waheed, 21, changed his name from Don Stewart-Whyte six months ago

BRITISH police claim to have found a "martyrdom video" in which one of the 24 British Muslims arrested over an alleged plot to destroy up to a dozen passenger aircraft sets out his reasons for joining the planned suicide attack.

British officials said the damning evidence had been found in the home of one of the suspects, who include a 23-year-old biochemistry student and a Heathrow security guard with an all-areas access pass.

The guard was in his airport uniform when he was arrested and led away in handcuffs.

The suspects are mostly of Pakistani origin but two are white converts to Islam. Abdul Waheed, 21, changed his name from Don Stewart-Whyte six months ago after growing up as the son of a Conservative Party official.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 03:21 PM
So, the President invites you to the Oval Office and says, "Have a seat, there's something I'd like to ask you."

You say, "With all due respect (heh!), Sir....No."

Who would have the cojones to do that? Courageous? I think so.

You look at the act alone and not the potential consequences. It is an incomplete, and therefore flawed, position.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 02:58 PM
John D'Oh
Aug 12 2006, 10:47 AM
The Public has a right to know?

Yes, it does. Only through an informed electorate can we be assured that our Constitutionally guaranteed rights are not trampled upon. As someone said elsewhere, it tends to be "pesky." But until the 4th amendment is repealed, that's the way it is.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

As far as I'm aware, MI5 isn't bound by the conditions of the US constitution when dealing with members of the British public. I know that certain Americans consider the United Kingdom to be the 51st State, but we've actually been a sovereign nation for quite some time, and have survived a great deal without the need for a written constitution of our own, so I really feel that borrowing yours is unneccessary. In addition, it's worth noting that the UK has considerably more experience in dealing with domestic terrorism than the USA does.

Thankfully, if the Guardian ever felt compelled to publish state secrets,

a) The journalist involved, and most likely the editor of the newspaper would be detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure.

b) It's unlikely that anyone would be able to decipher the secrets, due to the inordinate amount of typographical errors which the Grauniad is apt to make.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 12:21 PM
So, the President invites you to the Oval Office and says, "Have a seat, there's something I'd like to ask you."

You say, "With all due respect (heh!), Sir....No."

Who would have the cojones to do that? Courageous? I think so.

Even your own scenario: "With all due respect (heh!), Sir....No.": which shows that you realize that they hold the president as contemptuous, argues against them as being courageous.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Number 6
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Junior Carp
The 89th Key
Aug 12 2006, 11:29 AM
#6, why don't you post under your real name

Why don't you?
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man.
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The 89th Key
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Number 6
Aug 12 2006, 03:41 PM
The 89th Key
Aug 12 2006, 11:29 AM
#6, why don't you post under your real name

Why don't you?

Are you implying that my parents didn't name me The 89th Key?
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George K
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Finally
John, isn't there a difference (I can't remember where I heard it) in the British and US ways of "suspecting" someone? In the US you have to have "probable cause," whereas in England you only need "likely suspicion" (or something like that). The burden on the law enforcement community is completely different.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Aug 12 2006, 03:43 PM
John, isn't there a difference (I can't remember where I heard it) in the British and US ways of "suspecting" someone? In the US you have to have "probable cause," whereas in England you only need "likely suspicion" (or something like that). The burden on the law enforcement community is completely different.

To be honest, I don't know. Any British people here with half a brain?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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