Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3
Something To Think About
Topic Started: Aug 11 2006, 08:14 AM (954 Views)
Rick Zimmer
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
AlbertaCrude
Aug 11 2006, 02:40 PM
Rick Zimmer
Aug 11 2006, 01:34 PM
Why does everyone think we have some sort of national interest that mandates the type of involvement we now have in the Middle East?


Because Europe, North America and much of Eurasia and Asia do have strategic interests there.

Outside of oil, what are these interests that are of any concern to the US or, if you prefer, North America?

If Europe and Eurasia also work become self-sufficient in energy, why would they care what goes on in these countries and who all these tribal leaders and religious sectarians decide to kill in their own countries?

Why should the West be involved miliarily or why should we have our own security threatened trying to resolve age-old hatreds. Let the region fight it out itself. Over time, probably a short time, this area will achieve some level of stability and we can then deal with them diplomatically and economically.

It worked very successfully with the Soviet Black. It will work here.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Materially, I agree there is not much else than plenty of shallow hydrocarbons. Sand is not a commodity in high demand.

However as the realtors always maintain it's location, location, location that sells properties. So too with the Middle East.

Keep studying Rick sooner or later you mght get it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kincaid
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Rick Zimmer
Aug 11 2006, 01:52 PM
...the Soviet Black.

I'll have a black russian too, thanks.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kincaid
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Rick, your last two posts have left my jaw open. I am afraid that Larry might have you figured out after all.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
Would this mean we pull out of the UN, too?

Rick, the idea of pulling out is ludicrous. If we have no involvement, one of two things happen:

1) Iran develops Nukes, launches them against Israel, Israel launches back, and the middle east is now the biggest Pyrex baking dish in the world.

2) Israel doesn't wait for Iran to develop Nukes, and pre-emptively takes Iran out of the equation, causing all the other Arab nations to attack Israel, resulting in the biggest damn Pyrex baking dish in the world.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kincaid
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Meanwhile, oil production grinds to a halt (except for Canada) and the world economy is in the toilet.

So we have a toilet and a Pyrex baking dish - not pretty.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
Kincaid
Aug 11 2006, 06:08 PM
Meanwhile, oil production grinds to a halt (except for Canada) and the world economy is in the toilet.

So we have a toilet and a Pyrex baking dish - not pretty.

And then we'll all be bowing to our Canadian Overlords!
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
Does this sound familiar:

'I say, let them kill each other, they've done it before so many times, and it really isn't America's problem, we're mostly self-sufficient, and once they've stopped fighting we can probably come to some arrangement with whoever's running the place, even if he is a bit of a bad guy. We've tried to help before, and they're just totally ungrateful, so let them get on with it.'
.
.
.
.
'Hey, no fair, someone sank my battleship! It's a day of infamy!'
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
I am left utterly speechless by what Rick has posted in this thread. I can only be thankful that his views are in the slimmest minority.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
'It worked with the Soviet block'

What the US did with the Soviet block was mostly definitely not isolationism. If they'd have tried that, we'd probably have had German unification about 50 years early, and not in a good way.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Luke's Dad
Aug 11 2006, 02:14 PM
Kincaid
Aug 11 2006, 06:08 PM
Meanwhile, oil production grinds to a halt (except for Canada) and the world economy is in the toilet.

So we have a toilet and a Pyrex baking dish - not pretty.

And then we'll all be bowing to our Canadian Overlords!


And just where are the corporate HQ's and bulk of the shareholders of Canadian oil and gas resources located and residing?

I hope you're just being facetious. If not, you are sounding like someone else whose views are held only by the slimmest minority.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Luke's Dad
Member Avatar
Emperor Pengin
:wink:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
Canada has more than enough oil to float a good sized Barge.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
or two Barges. You should see our uranium desposits too.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kincaid
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
The last thing I want to look at is the deposits on your ranium.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Posted Image

"Tell me son, what would it take for me make you an offer that would make your eyes glow for more?"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rick Zimmer
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Luke's Dad
Aug 11 2006, 03:05 PM
Would this mean we pull out of the UN, too?

Rick, the idea of pulling out is ludicrous. If we have no involvement, one of two things happen:

1) Iran develops Nukes, launches them against Israel, Israel launches back, and the middle east is now the biggest Pyrex baking dish in the world.

2) Israel doesn't wait for Iran to develop Nukes, and pre-emptively takes Iran out of the equation, causing all the other Arab nations to attack Israel, resulting in the biggest damn Pyrex baking dish in the world.

So, are you saying LD that we need to be involved in this area as we are because the people in the region are so stupid they will blow themselves to kingdom come? Can we really stop that if this is what they intend to do? Do we really need to become so involved that we also get blown to kingdom come? Why would we pursue a policy that has this as a likely outcome? If they are going to do it anyway, let them. If they are hell bound to do it, we can't stop it -- all we can do is become one of the participants if we stay the course we are on.

This entire thread is based on an article that says we are being dragged into WWIII by a bunch of hate-fileld, tribalistic societies who cannot keep from warring against and killing each other. Why are we letting them do that?

There are similar hate-filled, tribalistic societies in sub-Saharan Africa who are constantly warring against each other and fighting each other. We pretty much ignore them and they are not forsing us into WWIII.

And yet, for some reason, we are allowing the countries in this relatively small area of the world to create all of this horrible mess and to bring the rest of the world along with them. It is crazy and ludicrous to allow ourselves to be led like sheep to the slaughter house.

The only reason they are capable of doing this is because the world needs oil. For some reason we think that to get the oil we have to be involved in their petty wars and that we have to try to keep them from killing each other -- at the cost of becoming part of the killing process and, based on this article, becoming involved in a world war.

But that is not our only option. We have others. We can do what we are doing in sub-Saharan Africa. Stay out of their wars. Stay out of their battles. Deal with them on economic and diplomatic terms, but eliminate the military terms.

Why is this so crazy? Why let these insane people who have no better vision for their societies than killing and oppression determine our future and our fate for us?

Why do we have to walk into the tunnel knowing the train is coming head-on at us, when we can walk around the tunnel, let the train do what it is going to do, and still get to where we need to be?

(And yes, AC, I understand the historical significance of the area geographically. Do you think it still has that significance? Enough any longer for the world to allow itself to be plunged into WWIII? I wonder.)
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Wrong, Rick.

Arab states and Iran were given full independence following WWII, because they showed a desire to become a part of the world community. They were founding members and contributors to Roosevelt's dream- the UN Charter. As well, They knew and agreed that the eventual establishment of Jewish state would be in Palestine. Sovereign states like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran were also well aware of the future value of the oil resources that lay beneath their sovereign territories. For Christ's sake they were educated at Cambridge and Oxford! Those very nations asked the industrialized world, particularly the US, to invest and assist them in tapping and producing those resources to earn real money so that they could reap the benefits of ongoing foreign investment to develop those resources. They made a deal and we're holding them to it.

David Burton made a point in one of his earlier posts in this thread that there are some in the world who are sick and tired of Islam holding to priniciples of Koranic absolute truth and that no territory once Islamicised cannot be returned to hands of infidels. In this global economy and polity there is no room for that medieval superstitious truck. In my world, the real world of the 21st century, a secular world of kick ass reality coupled with 2000 + years of Judeo-Christian moral ethics, there are no sacred cities, such as Mecca and Medina, that are closed on pain of death to people who do not adhere to a particular religious affiliation . Nor are there burqas, hajibs or segregation of women. Likewise there are no codified beheadings, stonings and the rest of that Sharia bull****(liquid bovine scat) . We've been there and done that- left it all behind or moved on if you like. We have evolved as a community and civilization beyond that sort of medieval superstition.

They, those people, are either a part of that world or they are not. If they choose not to be then they have made promises they must honour or suffer the consequences.

Now if your world view cannot make any sense of what those people are doing to disrupt global commerce and political stability so that in their friggin' imagination can grasp and assume that God's will is being fulfilled, I suggest that you take a professor's sabbatical and do some serious study.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rick Zimmer
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
David Burton
Aug 11 2006, 11:27 AM
Sorry, I don't believe we can learn anything from the histories of European wars to determine what we are dealing with right now in the Middle East and elsewhere. Not at all.

First of all, any notion that Israel will just move out, fail or allow itself to be defeated betrays a woeful ignorance of Israel, it's backers, and its weapons."Never again," means what it says. Their view of war is about like mine, and I found it wonderfully described in the works of Maurice Samuel; you kill your enemy utterly and quickly, then after the slaughter you go home to your family and friends, not happy with what you did, not gloating at all because war is not sport, but because you had to survive. That's Israel. They have representation at the highest levels of the Barge - with real and figurative guns pointed at the others on their level.

My Jewish friends here, with deep contacts in Israel tell me they have never been more frightened in their entire lives, not for Israel, but for the Arabs. They know that "Next time, Cairo," for example means exactly what it says; if Israel were to be attacked from Egyptian territory - which I predict will happen eventually.

This is the Third World War (or the Fourth if you count the Cold War as a real war, which it wasn't) in numbering only. We will be dragged into this war, as will Russia, by the forces of history and interest - which does include oil, since again, those in charge of the global modernization process, who mostly reside in the West, do not want another form of energy to be loosed on the planet because with such a release of technology would inevitably cause a new and more deadly weaponry to arise and end up in the wrong hands. This is about to happen if it hasn't already - August 22.

If it comes, between now and then, expect it to be sudden. At the moment the ground offensive into southern Lebanon is underway.

I don't disagree with your historical analysis and your expectations of these countries, AC.

But the fact is a few of these countries -- Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and a couple of others -- are dead set to continue their tribalism and kill each other.

The article at the beginning of this thread claims that their actions are drawing us into WWIII. But they are only doing that to us because we let them -- because we let them involve us in their hatred and their violence.

We need not be dragged into WWIII. We need not be involved. We can step away, let them do what they want to do to each other all the while having economic and diplomatic relations with them so we get what we need.

[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
I might, but won't, argue compellingly that we're at on the precipice of WWV. But that's another story. In any case, I think the real big one will come when I'm well into my '90's . Благодарю вас, Рональд Рейган и Михаил Сергеевич Горбачев.

BTW I have already received by registered mail from Her Majesty's Government, (Aha! bet you didn't know to Whom Canadian soldiers still owe their first allegiance- thumb nosing to IT and Quirt for being republican arses ) my absolute notification of discharge from reservist military duty owing to age, rank and "current relevance" of training. :sad:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
David Burton
Senior Carp
AlbertaCrude
Aug 11 2006, 05:37 PM
I might, but won't, argue compellingly that we're at on the precipice of WWV. But that's another story. In any case, I think the real big one will come when I'm well into my '90's .

I'd really be interested in your chronology. Maybe The Great War of 1914 wasn't the first world war, or maybe it was.

Anyway, this is what I know about oil, having invested a lot of people's money to good advantage in this area over the past 3 years.

Besides the Persian Gulf, where all the really great sweet crude is, that doesn't require an exorbitant amount of cracking to get any decent product out of it, there are other sizeable deposits we know about that haven't been tapped. Also the price for it plus the relentless march of software and mechanical technology has made various diagonal drilling systems possible to extract even more oil from existing sites.

There may be as much oil under Sudan as under Saudi Arabia just deeper. We don't know as much about how sweet or sour it is yet. The same is true of the Falkland Islands (if you ever wondered why we sided so hard with Great Britain in that dispute), various places controlled by Australia and East Timor (which was why their independence from Indonesia was so bloody) as well as huge deposits in shale and oil sands in the US and Canada.

Pennsylvania grade crude is among the sweetest. There's just not that much of it. But we have huge quantities of coal and ways being developed that involve superheated electronics devices that would sweat the oil out of this coal. And at about the same time, new technologies make the burning of this stuff, which will be low-sulfur content by the way, much cleaner than any other fuel. Of course, law will eventually mandate the use of these technologies.

If we had to, the English-speaking world, except for India, would be able to provide its own energy if something ever happened to make the oil in the Middle East unusable or unavailable for a time, perhaps as long as 40 years if they really explode a lot of nukes. In fact, no matter what happens The Barge has to be making deals all the time, just to cover its own bets.

Watch the futures exchanges if you have an interest in these things. You'll see factors of The Barge at work. Another place to keep an eye on, again if you have sufficient desire to study it, is the bond market, considering that there are hundreds of thousands more bond issues than stocks. You'd want to watch for big swings in the bond market which affect the stock exchanges, which countries, which sectors, then go back and try and scout out any sources of inside financial information you think you have a bead on. Even so you must "be your own guru," and eternal skepticism has kept me, and my clients, more than solvent over the past few troubling years.

Someone used to say, "buy on bad news, sell on good," or "buy when war breaks out, sell when peace is declared."

The exchanges, the banking system (even as shaky as some think it is, remember they can create and destroy out of thin air and it works), paper money and credit, are the MO of The Barge, which is why I sometimes trace them back to the founding of the Bank of England in the early 18th century.
These people are all in it together with ropes and nooses around each other's necks and loaded guns at each other's heads.

A lot of people who have met some obvious Barge men (there aren't any women - very sexist at the top) think these people are stupid just because they seem to care little to nothing about things like academic credentials, loyalty to particular theories or ideologies, who or what they think they are or know. Usually the easiness is a feigned trick. One approaches the known Barge operative as one approaches a known master of organized crime or your average rattlesnake; these people now know who you are, may bother you if you interfere in their plans, may kill you if you make yourself so much trouble for them that it's time to "let nature take its course."

There will come a time when the stuff in the Middle East becomes just too much, game over, clear the deck, we're bringing in others to do the job. I'm telling you all, way ahead of time, to expect that they will be Chinese. Imagine that there just aren't that many people in Iraq anymore. There's still oil that needs to be extracted. A lot more of it is going to be sold to China. There are training camps "schools" in places in Western China where no oil is known to exist. Why are they being trained by Western oil firms? Some of us students of geopolitics believe we have spotted a likely scenario.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Daniel\
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
I am going to show my ignorance here but, would you please explain to me to whom you refer when you talk about the Barge? The Barge was mentioned to me in the first thread I started here, at which time the author said that he was joking.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Daniel, you can start your web seach with the name William Knox D'Arcy (October 11, 1849 - May 1, 1917).

David Burton wrote
 
I'd really be interested in your chronology. Maybe The Great War of 1914 wasn't the first world war, or maybe it was


It's a moot point in any case.

Suffice to say that the alternative assessment of modern warfare is Eurocentric, if not unabashedly Anglocentric, and the defining criteria is based on continental or global scales. Therefore since you asked:

Thirty Years War= WWI (not much of Western and Central Europe left untouched by devastion- belligerents vary but by 1648 everyone is economically bled white; Roman Catholicism pretty much resigns itself to the fact that the Protestant Reformation is a permanent fixture of European culture and secular society; Europeans begin to understand the strategic value of naval power and Command of the Sea)

Seven Years War = WWII (Britain and France and Spain clash globally; Britain finally establishes global Command of the Sea which it holds virtually unchallenged until Battle of Jutland 1917; seeds of American Revolution are sown)

French Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars= WWIII (out of the blood of the French Revolution a commoner warlord emerges and proclaims himself the New Charlemagne; Royal Navy carries conflict globally & builds pan European alliance to combat Napoleon; ongoing European wars against Napoleon make way for wars for Latin American independence and sow seeds for Decembrist and Russian Revolutions)

WWI & WWII = WWIV (The end of old world and demise of colonial Europe; the rise of ideologies; 1918 was a ceasefire which held until 1939; Japan however continued to fight in Asia throughout the ceasefire period; Global Command of the Sea transfers from Great Britain to USA; USA emerges as sole atomic power in the world; sovereignty of the nation state affirmed in the UN Charter)

WWV= ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
David Burton
Senior Carp
AlbertaCrude; Thanks so much for your chronology.

It explains MUCH about how Great Britain began to see itself after throwing off the constraints of continental Europe. The English in particular were the first to say with Chris Hitchens, "I wont be spoken to in that tone of voice," the tone used by Rome and the French. All our ideas about freedom, civil liberties, our notions of law and order, everything began with England. They were the first new nation. It could even be argued that the Norman Conquest (no, I've never met the chap personally) sparked the beginning of the process of creating a new people, order and society from the old, by quite deliberate stages including London's position at one end of the Hanseatic League, the first free trade zone or NAFTA. The whole thing really got going in the 16th century.

AlbertaCrude , "Thirty Years War= WWI (not much of Western and Central Europe left untouched by devastation - belligerents vary but by 1648 everyone is economically bled white; Roman Catholicism pretty much resigns itself to the fact that the Protestant Reformation is a permanent fixture of European culture and secular society; Europeans begin to understand the strategic value of naval power and Command of the Sea)"

The Vatican has been in a process of decline since even before the 16th century. This conflict hastened its decline in political influence, a decline that is still underway. It is also worth noting that the sparks of the Reformation were clear to the best minds in the Church for at least 200 years prior to conflict breaking out, but they didn't want to do anything about them. They were only interested in their temporal power and to the extent that involved keeping people ignorant, crushing dissent, etc. they merely put off the day of eventual retribution. The so called Counter-Reformation which among other things led to the Church sticking its nose into matters affecting the natural sciences (Galileo, etc.), sealed its inevitable doom. Christianity will survive in some form or another, with or without the Roman Catholic Church.

This first continent wide European war also marked the clean break between the powers of Church and State in the West. Whereas before the roles were always considered separate and parallel, yet the two often collaborated, but after this war, that separation was permanent, even in erstwhile Catholic countries - except perhaps Spain, which languished in backwardness as a result until recently.

My feeling about it has always been that the Vatican has deserved its fate for not sticking to its mission, essentially a spiritual rather than political business and not meeting the realistic demands of its critics before an open break was possible and inevitable. I lay it down to the "human, all too human" errors of unwarranted pride in position, ego, greed, etc. The Church deserved it. The process of decline was hastened further in modern times by Vatican II. It will be complete when the Church fractures over the acceptance or rejection of some new doctrine cooked up to suit its "itching ears."

One could even suggest that the primary conflict has been between Rome and London all along, with London on the long ascendancy. It was dangerous for Rome to brutally put down those who opposed her religion and break promises with certain ancient royal families during the Middle Ages. Those scores are remembered to this day and help form one of the essentials for the people who would control the world's destiny; The Barge (my name for them). Command of the sea as it related to both trade and defense, was always one of their strengths and maintaining that command always their top priority. The Barge began in the court of Elizabeth I as an agreement among pirates supported by the British Crown.

AlbertaCrude, "Seven Years War = WWII (Britain and France and Spain clash globally; Britain finally establishes global Command of the Sea which it holds virtually unchallenged until Battle of Jutland 1917; seeds of American Revolution are sown)."

Right you are. In fact the reason the British were not able to smash the American Revolution at its inception is that they had their hands tied up in Europe. The War of 1812 was their attempt to renew the struggle and Andrew Jackson, with help from a bunch of French pirates (the French helped us again), gave them a decisive defeat outside New Orleans. There was one more episode in this drama played out during the American Civil War in which the British sided with the Confederacy. The American ambassador to St. James was one of my ancestors, Charles Francis Adams. In a bold move, in order to break the back of British aid to the South, it was arranged that certain American gun boats would sneak across the Atlantic and prepare to bombard British home ports if Adams didn't bring back a signed treaty ending British involvement. The Brits gave in; they had their own new better sources of cotton in Egypt, which would later spell economic doom to the American South since they would be denied the best prices for their cotton after the Civil War ended.

AlbertaCrude - "French Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars= WWIII (out of the blood of the French Revolution a commoner warlord emerges and proclaims himself the New Charlemagne; Royal Navy carries conflict globally & builds pan European alliance to combat Napoleon; ongoing European wars against Napoleon make way for wars for Latin American independence and sow seeds for Decembrist and Russian Revolutions)"

A few points if I may: Napoleon, whom my oldest daughter admires, was the greatest soldier and statesmen the French have had - maybe ever. Certain of his accomplishments have formed the French nation and consciousness as no other, right up to the present day. But of course in the end he was defeated by the superiority of British intelligence and war fighting rationality. If you're going to fight a war, you must know how to conclude it. Mostly they have done this. Occasionally, as in the first weeks of World War I (The Great European War Part 1), they forget and suffered tremendous casualties as a result. Nobody's perfect.

The second point concerns the value of political revolutions to a group intent on managing the world. First, after about 1725, thanks to the contributions of a few émigré Jews and Huguenots (who fled to England with malice in their hearts toward the French kings and a desire to get even if it took generations), the modern system of credit and finance was created. Wielding the power of the purse, the ability to create and manipulate the means of exchange, it was now possible to beat an enemy like Napoleon who always insisted that nothing but precious metals was real money, and fund political struggles which might be considered beneficial to London's interests. The reason the British and later we, went back on the gold standard was to benefit certain well placed political interests, nothing more.
Those who really know, aren't required to tell everyone.

AlbertaCrude - "WWI & WWII = WWIV (The end of old world and demise of colonial Europe; the rise of ideologies; 1918 was a ceasefire which held until 1939; Japan however continued to fight in Asia throughout the ceasefire period; Global Command of the Sea transfers from Great Britain to USA; USA emerges as sole atomic power in the world; sovereignty of the nation state affirmed in the UN Charter)"

The influenza epidemic of the period also helped the cease-fire in Europe. This also marked the period where The Barge saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to move underground or at least behind the scenes. As early as the 1880's select groups of men wielding enormous global influence for the time, began meeting together in secret to decide what to do. Look for sources mentioning the Round Table. Demographics were clearly against them and it was not economically feasible to keep the British Empire going. The Great War made colonial Empires by any European nation impossible in the long run. France didn't get it, and some other nations, Italy and Germany, thought they had been left out of the colonial era and needed to catch up. The Brits got it, and decided to start trouble by funding popular revolutions, which would keep the natives otherwise occupied and out of Western Europe. Communism was almost a dead issue before the Brits decided to import it into Russia. They funded Lenin, a common criminal with a string of bank robberies to his credit, recognizing that he'd do what they couldn't do; nail down the Russian populace and keep them out of Western Europe where at the time nobody wanted them for anything but cheap labor. They schemed to build up Germany too after the first skirmishes of the Great European War of the 20th century had ended in stalemate. The Brits hoped the Germans would move east and defeat the Russians rather than march west into France. What's really incredible is that had Hitler been less of a racist, and accepted the willing help of the Ukrainians, Stalin and Russian communism (and hence Mao and China), might have ended before Japan attacked us in December, 1941. Another decisive event of the second half of the Great European War took place when the Wehrmacht failed in its attempt to assassinate Hitler. Had that happened, the Nazis would have sued for peace, kept doing what they were doing in Auschwitz, Belsen, Dachau and other places, while the Stalinists did the same in Russia and we would have had two totalitarian regimes in Europe at the same time, an uneasy peace, no Israel either. So you can see how events might have been very different.

AlbertaCrude's World War V - the present conflict - pits the West, led not from Washington but as always from London, against the nascent forces of a rising third world demographic. Never forget that the English are mightily aware of demographics and how they work against their attempts simply to avoid being submerged in a sea of what they consider un-civilization. Thomas Malthus and Charles Darwin are among their leading lights. Since the 16th century the Jews have been collaborators since they too are aware of their demographic situation.

The result seems clear to me; the next weapon will be a devastating plague created in a biochem lab somewhere (the fruits of the human genome project) and dispersed among the populations of the enemies of the white races. The Jews, and the rest who will be spared, will be given the antidote: maybe they have it already. And yes, the Round Table early on acknowledged that the Russians would perforce become the inevitable allies of the Anglo-Saxon races (really as much Celtic, Norman and Scandinavian as well). Of course it may get way out of hand. But I expect that a billion or so people will up and die before mid century. The fact of the matter is that the MINDS of the worlds' unfortunates, "useless eaters," etc. are considered too primitive ever to accept newer ways of thinking. The Barge sponsored the theory of evolution for its own purposes. The weeding out process has been accomplished through various popular revolutions, all funded one way or another from London - oh yes with some sizeable American contributions as well, since the Anglo-American breach has long since been sealed at the top. But now, that process has run its course, so now it's time for another. The Barge plotters have long known how to use social and political dialectics to their own advantage for hundreds of years. They are masters of the game.

What do they believe? The true Barge believe in nothing but their own survival and safety as a prerequisite for the continuance of human civilization on this planet, simple as that. They are willing to spare nothing to support this belief including the wholesale slaughter of billions of people if necessary. They even think the world would be far better if certain kinds of people just went extinct. There are too many of the wrong kinds of people.

Are the Nazis then? Let's put it this way, they were Nazis before there were Nazis. They invented and funded Hitler. They supported a lot of what he tried to do. Not too many people know the extent to which certain Jews hated other Jews and wanted them exterminated. In Listen Little Man (On my best of 10 list) Wilhelm Reich remarks that no Jew can be hated as much by any non-Jew as by some other Jews.

They are racist, sexist and not homophobic (as a few of these have always existed and been tolerated among them). They secretly and not so secretly believe that the Pro-Life movement is nothing more than an attempt by their old foe, the Vatican, to prop up its demographic. But even now they have their ways and means of dealing with the Church. Some of the things the Church may do, might even meet with their approval. It is their flexibility, their resilience, their ability to co-opt any forces that might stop them, etc. that make them stronger than any concerted force to topple them.

Those lucky enough to live "in the village" may be spared many horrors.

Be seeing you ...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
David Burton
Aug 12 2006, 12:05 PM
AlbertaCrude; Thanks so much for your chronology.

Communism was almost a dead issue before the Brits decided to import it into Russia.  They funded Lenin, a common criminal with a string of bank robberies to his credit, recognizing that he'd do what they couldn't do; nail down the Russian populace and keep them out of Western Europe where at the time nobody wanted them for anything but cheap labor.

Much obliged. Clearly you see in what direction my neo-revisionist historiography leads.

In any case do have any comments as to the close relationship that initially began between Armand Hammer (Occidental Petroleum) and the pariah Soviet state first with Lenin and Stalin- then continue right up to Hammer's death in the early year's of Gorbachev.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3