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| how to be charming | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 5 2006, 05:36 AM (526 Views) | |
| apple | Aug 5 2006, 05:36 AM Post #1 |
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one of the angels
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i accompany a church ensemble/choir and this yr. i am their secret director... delegating and deciding kind of like an underground leader. Our ensemble has been innovative, classical, upbeat and often at odds with the rest of our parish's musical volunteer body, which is mostly made up of fairly older women who gossip, and have plenty of time to chat, who don't read music, don't like learning new music, and actively perch in the telephone tree... spreading disinformation and attempting control the musical happenings. anyway, they are not going away. My group has a certain status because we perform well, sound good, can do challeninging repertoire and practice.. and anyway... i have to deal with them often in this upcoming year.... meetings, and such. These ladies are basically good people and willing to volunteer - we've just gotten off to a horrible start - when i challenged some of the disinformation and they went nuts.. I don't like them really, (water under the bridge and such) and don't like wasting my time bit must interact with them. I envy the socially gracious and hoping some of you will suggest charming things i can do when i am faced with the inanity of these biddybodies. |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Aug 5 2006, 06:12 AM Post #2 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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If you think of them as inane biddybodies it's going to be hard, because people's feelings and emotions show through and others (probably moreso women) can 'read' those underlying feelings despite that the words flowing out may be saying something different. (Even true on this messageboard to some extent) So you've got to either learn actor or politician quality masking, or you need to change how you actually feel about them. I think most truly charming people are in the latter category. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| TomK | Aug 5 2006, 07:10 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Johnny Jingo's right--you have to be able to change their opinion of things--in this case you. It begins by doing the unexpected--meet nastiness with kindness ALMOST every time. It doesn't hurt to be nasty on rare occasions so that they remember just a bit of the "other" you. Always see (or pretend to see) the other people's side of the disagreement. Be sweet. It doesn't hurt to semi-convince yourself that the other person was right and you wronged them (not for real,) but if you hold the thought that they could be right in your mind they will read those phoney emotions as real. It's how really good sales people sell things. Try it--you could achieve miracles. All the best, my little pumpkin.
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| justme | Aug 5 2006, 07:49 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple, I suggest re-evaluating these people and finding their good qualities. Whenever I find myself disliking someone, I try to think of their good points. Usually they have at least one or two redeeming qualities. Alas, it's true. Sometimes they don't and the chemistry is simply not there. Then I simply avoid them. If I can't avoid them I'm usually non-chalant and try not to display any feelings one way or another. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2006, 08:53 AM Post #5 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Age and treachery are in the process of defeating youth and skill here. It happens frequently. I think you just need a polite but firm policy when it comes to your ensemble. Your group does what it wants to do without the biddies input. If they wish to help, you welcome them, and are always cordial and Christian with them. But you don't let them control what your group does. You have joy in the sacred music you produce, which should be enough for them too. I personally think you would be wasting your time to try to win them over. Jesus said turn the other cheek, not give up your backbone. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| TomK | Aug 5 2006, 09:10 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sorry, but it's best to be evil if you want to be charming. |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 09:12 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple Forgive me for what I'm about to say but from where I sit, beyond the reach of your punch, I see this: Instead of glossing it over by finding a way to be charming enough, I'd resolve this problem. I see the problem to be as much you as them. It takes two sides to have a classic power struggle. (You mention they want to *control* musical happenings - but you describe your role as "i am their secret director... delegating and deciding kind of like an underground leader".) You have your way of feelings about how the music should go. They have theirs. Yours is not better because of reason X Y or Z. Either way would be fine. This is not the Julliard or the Met. It's a church. I'm not saying churches don't deserve quality music. I'm saying people-issues can be more important than musical standards. What is going on in your heart, and theirs, is much more important. I think you are paying attention to the wrong things. Not being able to read music, uwillingness to learn new music, having time to gossip are not as important as what brings you together, practicing your faith. |
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| apple | Aug 5 2006, 09:23 AM Post #8 |
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one of the angels
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whoa.. kenny .. i am the 'secret director' of my group.. not theirs. and it's not so secret... it is just that someone else is 'in charge', but they ask me what to do. I do not musically influence the ladies.. and one of my primary concerns is that my group is not subject to the parameters of those who aren't musicians, and who will not open their minds to the resources available to church musicians. in the past they've spread some pretty malicious gossip about my director and me.. silly stuff, like I am really a Methodist (that must be a real insult) or that we stole a pew at nite, or that we really don't have college degrees.. (what does that have to do with anything). Thing is ,is that it is like a large family, things are entertwined.. they sit on the committees ... they made a rule for instance that no one could practice the organ because it was old, just so i couldn't practice for Easter.,,, (none of them practice.... and in fact it was discussed that it was unfair that i practiced with my singers when they didn't.... that it doesn't matter what you sound like as long as you volunteer) and i agree, Kenny, people issues are important and it is vital that their contributions are acknowledged and shared.. I simply have to have charm them and i assert i am not part of the problem, but know i have to deal with the way they have done things for decades. appreciating the bits of advice.. |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 09:26 AM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple I just can't imagine all this. It is a church. It is religion. It is about faith and what is in you heart. I just don't understand all this. It sounds like High School. Then again I'm an atheist. I should stay out of this. |
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| justme | Aug 5 2006, 09:47 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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that's not what charm is about. Charm has to be genuine and honest. If it's not it's simply BS. People see through BS. Since you want this relationship to last either they have to change their feelings about you and they'd need good reason (not BS) to do this. Or you have to change your feelings about them. The latter is probably easier because it's too difficult to change other people. JMO |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 09:50 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Uhm . . . |
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| apple | Aug 5 2006, 09:51 AM Post #12 |
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one of the angels
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it's like grade school... and i know it is up to me justme.. |
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| justme | Aug 5 2006, 10:03 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Be proactive. Think about these people and some of their better qualities. Then take it a step farther by complimenting them. Be truthful and genuine. For example, if one of the women always dresses fashionably. Say to her "gosh, you always dress so fashionably. I wish I had your style!" Or if one has a child going off to college say "You must be so proud of your son! How's he getting on at school?" Or if one teaches catechism say "gosh, where do you find the time for all this? You're so good at it!" You must be honest though. Stop dwelling on their past negative activities. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 10:07 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple I think you should befriend some of them. Find ways to spend time with them doing things that have nothing to do with music, or church. Most of us are wonderful people when others get to know us. I sense a lot of the tension is not related to music. Rather it is the tendency we all have to focus on differences. ( I just read justme's post - similar.) |
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| Mark | Aug 5 2006, 10:07 AM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Stick to your guns and be firm and unyielding. If you don't they will know that you cave and take advantage of this knowledge in the future as well. You could always fight "false fire" with "true fire" and find out some dirt on them. Just threaten them with exposure without actually doing it. Music is one of the primary reasons why I can't stand going to church. People like this are another reason. Music. I imagine if God is up there and he actually pays attention to the goings on in churches all over the world, he must be so disappointed in us. He is probably thinking to himself, "WTF???!!! I used to hear such sweet music coming from my houses of worship. Music like Bach, Vivaldi, and the like. Now you play this crap? Oy!" |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| justme | Aug 5 2006, 10:18 AM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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she can still stay firm and try to work things out at the same time. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Aug 5 2006, 10:18 AM Post #17 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Apple a "pew thief"????? Hahahahaha! Give it up, Apple! Give them back the pew! I've heard some silly gossip before, but "pew thief" takes the cake. What can you do but laugh at something like that? It's straight outta Mayberry. :lol: |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| Mark | Aug 5 2006, 10:22 AM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 10:39 AM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple I'll give you 25 bucks for the pew. I'd offer more but shipping is going to be a bitch. It might go well with my Spanish Revival house. Can you get any that look like this ( I think these are Methodist) ? ![]() What else does your church have? Any wrought iron sconces? |
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| justme | Aug 5 2006, 10:48 AM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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they're right, apple. Being called a "pew thief" is pretty funny. But, you must've done something for them to dislike you enough to call you a pew-thief. You probably didn't do anything wrong but to them you did. Try and figure out what it was. And if it turns out to be something that you need to apologize for, do it. Apologize. You can say to one of them "you know, we've apparently started off on the wrong foot. There is so much a like about you and now here I've gone and done something stupid. I'm sorry. Can we start over?" I guarantee the person will start apologizing back and saying "no, dearie, you didn't do anything wrong" and they'll start talking about somebody else. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| kenny | Aug 5 2006, 10:51 AM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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apple, tell them all about ME.
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| Nina | Aug 5 2006, 10:56 AM Post #22 |
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Senior Carp
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I wonder if part of the problem is that you're a "secret" director. Why the secrecy? If you're making decisions and delegating in secret, perhaps they aren't completely loony-tunes to misunderstand your intentions. You mention you feel you are wasting your time to interact with them, but they are in a position to influence your choir's behavior and performance, either directly or indirectly. Therefore it's not wasting your time to deal with them. It's an important part of being a director. I'd get out from under the "secret" umbrella as quickly as possible if it were me. |
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| DivaDeb | Aug 5 2006, 11:18 AM Post #23 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I've actually been looking on ebay to find a pew... I'll give you 50 and I'll pick it up |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 5 2006, 11:31 AM Post #24 |
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MAMIL
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Could you do a musical spoof of their efforts? A mean-spirited, satirical type thing? I know, I know, it wouldn't help the situation at all, but it would make you feel better.
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| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| apple | Aug 5 2006, 11:37 AM Post #25 |
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one of the angels
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they don't like our choir because they are in the other choir.. and they want to be the best. The cantor group wanted to sing at the 9 AM Mass on Sunday and after 8 years of playing on Saturday's we applied for the 9 AM and got it.. so they spread info that the parishioners don't like us.. and the parishioners love us.. we get applause and letters saying stuff like 'it is so nice to hear the musicians and the singers playing at the same time" secret is not a good word i guess.. it's no secret that i am 'running' things, it's just that the job of parish liason has been given to someone else because i decided i was the master of diplomatic disaster.. going to a church liturgy meeting requires sainthood.. and my forte is rehearsals, song selection and practicing. anyway.. i do have to be friends and justme's suggestions of finding something positive to say are perfect.. |
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