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| Things in Cuba..... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 31 2006, 07:36 PM (1,039 Views) | |
| George K | Jul 31 2006, 07:36 PM Post #1 |
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Finally
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Castro hands power to brother during surgery Monday, July 31, 2006; Posted: 10:04 p.m. EDT (02:04 GMT) HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro was undergoing intestinal surgery and provisionally handed over power in the Communist island nation to his younger brother Raul, according to a statement read on Cuban television Monday night. Fidel Castro, 79, has led Cuba since a 1959 revolution. Raul Castro, 75, is the first vice president of the country, and as such, the designated successor to his brother. Castro's secretary, Carlos Balenciago, read a letter he said was from the president in which he said stress had forced him into surgery and that he would be in bed for several weeks after the operation was complete. Castro turns 80 on August 13. Raul Castro also assumes control over the armed forces and the leadership of the Communist Party, according to the statement. Last week, Fidel Castro joked that he had no plans to still hold power when he turns 100, Reuters reported. (Full story) Castro's surgery came just weeks after a U.S. government report called for the United States to have assistance in Cuba within weeks of Castro's death to support a transitional government and help move the country toward democracy. (Full story) The report was prepared by the Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, an interagency group co-chaired by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, a Cuban-American. President Bush created the commission in 2003 to "help hasten and ease Cuba's democratic transition," according to its Web site. The United States and Cuba, which have no formal diplomatic relations, are constantly at odds, but tensions between the two countries have increased in the past year. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jul 31 2006, 07:38 PM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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"Castro's surgery came just weeks after a U.S. government report called for the United States to have assistance in Cuba within weeks of Castro's death to support a transitional government and help move the country toward democracy. (Full story)" Sheesh. Just leave them alone. Oh, wait, does Cuba have oil under it?
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Jul 31 2006, 08:23 PM Post #3 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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If the old goat dies, you are going to see a party of unbelievable intensity in the streets of Miami. Then some real problems are going to start. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jul 31 2006, 09:21 PM Post #4 |
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Bull-Carp
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Yes they do have offshore oil and there are Canadian toolpushes and rigs making hole there. Its rather heavy, parrafin, sulphurous crude though- hard to run through the 60's vintage Soviet refineries on the island. They do however manage. And yes, I agree the US should just leave them alone. |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Jul 31 2006, 10:53 PM Post #5 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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There are a large number of Cuban-American right wingers in the U.S. who have been champing at the bit for decades to take over the island. They have strong ties to major U.S. politicians, are good friends of the Bushes, and have a great deal of time and money invested in private army paramilitary training and the like, so they will be ready for the takeover when their opportunity comes. Although it is blatantly illegal to conduct personal wars from U.S. soil, they have been allowed to operate. Mainstream media has not paid a lot of attention to them, even though they overtly conduct military exercises in the U.S. in anticipation of the takeover. For a while they had even chosen who the next leader of Cuba will be, a very wealthy Miamian and lobbyist named Jorge Mas Canosa. (however Mr. Mas died at an unexpectedly young age.) Although I wouldn't presume to guess exactly what shape things will take when Castro goes, I think the chances of the U.S. just leaving Cuba alone are close to zero. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| jon-nyc | Aug 1 2006, 01:40 AM Post #6 |
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Cheers
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I was in Miami a lot around the time he died. The Nuevo Herald (spanish edition of the miami herald) printed the huge headline 'No Mas'. Cuban-american leaders were outraged because 'No Mas', which means 'no more', has the connotation of 'enough'. As if it were expressing the exasperation of many at the actions of the community. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 1 2006, 04:40 AM Post #7 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I don't think there will be any military action involving the US. In fact I suspect the whole affair will be much quieter than anyone expects. Imagine being Castro at 79.. your health is failing, and the ideology you dedicated your life to has already collapsed. You know that as soon as you die your nation will go to market capitalism. In short, although you had a hell of a ride, it was, in the end, all for nothing. The result of your intransigence and mistakes is your people have suffered for nearly 50 years. I would not want to approach my last days with that knowledge. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| George K | Aug 1 2006, 04:57 AM Post #8 |
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Finally
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While everything you say is correct, how long has it been since a nation had a "leader" for 50 years in one person? It was probably nice to be el Presidente for all that time. A little carreer-end disappointment? Pshaw...
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 1 2006, 05:06 AM Post #9 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Some of the perks would be nice I guess. Good, rum, great cigars. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Aug 1 2006, 05:44 AM Post #10 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Mik, Predicting the future is probably the riskiest gamble of all. Nevertheless, I am much too tempted myself in this case. This is my prediction: With Castro out of the way, the US govt can facilitate the Miami-Cuban takeover by simply declaring that with Castro gone there's no more reason for the embargo and travel bans- whereupon 1/2 of Miami will descend on the island. This will be perceived by the world community as a good move by the US. While of course most Cuban-Americans will probably just be wanting to reunite with relatives and so on, the politically-minded will also move in to set up shop. Part of them will be there for money reasons (expanding/establishing their businesses, etc) and part of them (like Alpha 66) will be there for 'security' reasons. Among the many things that will be shipped from Miami to Cuba will be large amounts of weaponry meant for the hands of the various Miami paramilitary orgs that have been training for just this eventuality. It will be obvious that this is happening, but the US will feign having any knowledge or involvement. As a token, they will probably even bust a small arms shipment. Within a reasonable period of time, Cuba will have installed as a leader a Miamian who is now prominent in the CANF (Cuban American National Foundation). Eventually small upper and upper middle classes will become White and the numerous of the lower class will be Brown. I won't go as far as predicting how much blood will be shed. In fact I am optimistic it will be very little. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| taiwan_girl | Aug 1 2006, 05:49 AM Post #11 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Can someone explain the USA policy towards Cuba. To me, it seems ridiculous that the USA maintains it policy to Cuba (no relations, blockade, automatic amnesty to its citizens, etc.) when the USA has dealings with pretty much every other country in the world over the last 50 years (some of which I think are worse than Cuba). Is is simply because Cuba (Castro) has been able to exist in defiance of the USA for so many years? Are the ex-Cuban voters in Florida that powerful? Are there a lack of natural resources in Cuba so that there is no incentive for the USA to engage with them? |
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| kenny | Aug 1 2006, 05:51 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I doubt he sees it that way. Even on this forum it astonishes me how two people look and the exact same thing and see two completely different things. The more a person has invested in her beliefs the more colored her vision. |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 1 2006, 05:59 AM Post #13 |
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MAMIL
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I find it enormously ironic that these US sanctions have been in place for such a huge amount of time, presumably with the intent of removing Castro, and they appear to have actually cemented him in place. He's no worse than many other leaders which the US have no problem dealing with. As usual, it's the ordinary people, not the leaders, who suffer. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Aug 1 2006, 06:04 AM Post #14 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Actually, I think you are right. During the revolution, a lot of Cuban money fled north. Over the years, many of those families have prospered, as have other Cubans that left the island with a lot less. A lot of those folks will want to go back. The tidal wave of money will wash away the last vestiges of Castro's communism. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John Jacob Jingoism Smith | Aug 1 2006, 07:09 AM Post #15 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Taiwan Girl, The answers to the questions you ask could easily fill books. In fact, they do fill books. Many of them. So that is where I would point you for education on this subject. The only thing I think can be answered succinctly is about the Cuban American voters. There are enough of them to be significant in elections. In fact, the number that swung from Democrat to Republican for the 2000 presidential elections was enough to narrowly swing the election in Florida for Bush, subsequently installing him as President. IOW, Bush would not be Pres today if the Cuban-Americans who normally vote Democrat had done so in 2000. And let's not even get into Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, who is so tied in with Miami Cubans he is practically an honorary Cuban-American himself. But I think more significant than their sheer numbers is the amount of behind-the-scenes influence they have had, with close ties to several administrations- starting with Nixon, wherein they performed a lot of dirty work for him. In the 'influence' category I think they are much more powerful than the votes themselves. Not to mention intense involvement as CIA operatives. |
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Jingoism You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott | |
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| Nobody's Sock | Aug 1 2006, 07:35 AM Post #16 |
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Fulla-Carp
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We need to shove freedom down their throats. Then we can setup our own puppet government and put some of our own missiles there. Got to have some close nukes to that other terrorist nation, Jamaica. We know what's best for them. |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| John D'Oh | Aug 1 2006, 07:37 AM Post #17 |
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MAMIL
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You are Don Rumsfeld and I claim my 5 dollars. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Nobody's Sock | Aug 1 2006, 07:40 AM Post #18 |
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Fulla-Carp
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No, I just like my cheap rum, and those dammed Jamaicans are driving up the prices with their terroristic ways! |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| George K | Aug 1 2006, 07:41 AM Post #19 |
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Finally
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Top 9 Possible Scenarios That Caused Fidel Castro's Intestinal Bleeding 9. No, Mr. Montoya I did not "kill your father" nor am I "prepared to die". Now please put down that sword and let's talk this out. 8. Please Mr. Bauer, I had no idea she was your daughter. I'll take the posters down straight away. 7. Ohhhhh. Those refried beans are repeating on me. 6. Castro: Hey! Where the f*** do you think you're going? And how the hell did you get a raft in there? Intestines: Viva America!!!! 5. Slow down Zinedine. I never said that about your mother, I don't even know her. 4. Bwahahahahahaha! Hugo, you seriously have to stop with those "Cindy Sheehan is so fat..." jokes or you're going to make me bust a gut! 3. O-Man! How's it shaking? Wait a minute... you're not Oliver Stone! Guards!!! 2. Hey! Stop fooling around with that!! That's a banned book you have in your hand!! That could really hurt someone..... 1. Geez, those cookies were delicious. I didn't know that the CIA could bake like that. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Nina | Aug 1 2006, 07:43 AM Post #20 |
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Senior Carp
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Raul ain't no spring chicken, either. Let's face it--they're both gone fairly soon. What then? As far as I know, there's no one in the wings ready to pick up the reins. That should prove interesting. |
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| AlbertaCrude | Aug 1 2006, 07:47 AM Post #21 |
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Bull-Carp
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After Fidel, it may come as a surprise to Cuban emigres that they will be received with suspicion and distrust by their former countrymen rather than saviors. Similar to what the Ukrainian diaspora experienced in the newly independent Ukraine throughout the 90's. If nothing else Fidel and his regime has given the people an intense nationalism and sense of independence that did not exist before the revolution. |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 1 2006, 08:11 AM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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My dad stayed in a small Cuban village in the early 90s (not a tourist resort, though they were working on making it one). The problems the village was facing had a lot more to do with the embargos by the US than the Cuban government. The villagers were fine with Castro - but they weren't at all pleased with the US. Because the currency that is commonly used for tourists throughout the rest of the Caribbean is US dollars, that is what the Cuban tourist industries do as well. There is a lot more money in catering to tourists than there is in catering to the Cuban population. So many stores accepted only US$ so tourists will shop there. They did not accept Cuban money. And it was illegal for a Cuban to have US$. So many items that they needed (shoes, toothbrushes, etc) were impossible to buy, unless they did it illegally. After my dad had been there a few days, a waiter dropped a napkin in his lap. This DOES NOT HAPPEN. Waiters in this place were catering to tourists, and mistakes like that were not made. My dad discreetly opened the napkin and there was a note inside asking if he would meet someone on a nearby street. My dad went, and it was one of the waiters from the restaurant. He told my father that the people working at the restaurant had decided that they his group could be trusted, and asked my father if he would go to one of the local stores (which only accepted US$) to buy him a pair of shoes. He gave my dad $11US, scared to death that my dad would turn him in. He told my dad which shoes to buy. My dad went to the shop and they were out of that style of shoes in the man's size. So my dad bought him a pair of $13 shoes. When he met with the man to give him the shoes, the man said, "But I can't repay you - I don't have $2. I only have Cuban money" My dad, of course, told him not to worry about it - it wasn't a big deal. The man burst into tears and hugged my father, thanking him. Everyone in my dad's group left Cuba with empty suitcases and only the clothes on their backs. They gave everything else away to the locals. It wasn't that the items weren't available, or that they didn't have the money to buy them - it was that they weren't allowed to have the currency that the shops were dealing in. The Cuban people my dad met weren't angry at Castro or their political system - they were angry with the US. I don't know if it's still the same there now - I seem to remember a newsstory saying that they were considering allowing Cubans to use American currency. So perhaps that angle has changed. I realize that the US wants everyone in the world to live under a democratic government. But it's really none of their business how Cuba runs their country. I think they should shut down the embargo and mind their own business. Of course, Canada has a good relationship with Cuba, and so the national opinion of the country here is vastly different than the national opinion in the US. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| George K | Aug 1 2006, 08:23 AM Post #23 |
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Finally
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Dol, I don't know enough about Cuba, or its relations with Canada for that matter, to make an intelligent comment on what you wrote. However the comment that I quoted struck me as being interesting, for it is a "keep your hands out of other peoples' business" comment. Does that apply to other nations as well? Your fathers story describes a totalitarian Stalinist mindset, yet you feel that other nations should not intervene? Do you really feel, in light of the poignant story you told, that the Cubans are the ones running the country, or a small group of self-appointed, self-elected, and self-promoting neo-Stalinists? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 1 2006, 08:37 AM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Whether it's a small group of neo-Stalinists or not, it's not really any other country's business to step in. Who are we to say how a country "should" be run? Sure, we feel that it's better to live in a democracy. But for whatever reason, Castro has remained in power there for 50 years. And really, the citizens haven't made any major moves to oust him. Cuba is a soveirgn nation, and it's not our job to come in uninvited and install the government WE want them to have. I think the US would take issue with another country coming in and telling them that the method of government sucked, and that they were going to put in a new one. There isn't much of a difference in going in and installing a new government in Cuba. Just because Americans feel that their govenrment is the "right" one, doesn't give them the right to go in and take over other governments. Cuba is another country, and the US has no right to control it. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 1 2006, 08:45 AM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm going to add a bit to my above post. Let's imagine your spouse is a smoker. They don't want to quit. You can do everything you want to try to "make" them quit, but they're not going to if they don't want that change. And it's not really the right of another person to say that they have to. It's a decision they have to make for themselves. You can give your opinion, and say, "I think it would be better if...", but that's about the extent of it. If you try to make them quit, and "forbid" them to smoke around you, they won't quit, they'll just hide it better and be resentful and angry about it. But they won't quit. On the other hand, if that person comes to you and says, "I really want to quit smoking. Will you help me?" Of course you would. You'd be supportive and would do everything you could to help. That would be the kind, responsible thing to do. If the Cuban population rises up and wants to end Communism, and appeals to the US for help, then the US should help. But going in and forcing a new government on a population who isn't sure they WANT a new government is just going to lead to fighting and hostility - and an unstable country. Sometimes, you have to sit back and let people make mistakes and work things out for themselves. You can suggest, you can try to explain why things might be better if... But in the long run, forcing another country to change their government is rarely successful. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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5:01 PM Jul 10