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Mel Gibson and the ****ing Jews
Topic Started: Jul 30 2006, 09:43 AM (2,838 Views)
Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
he was not only drunk but he was angry. That's not so much a truth serum as a crazy irrational serum.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
John Jacob Jingoism Smith
Jul 30 2006, 12:43 PM
Alcohol makes normally suppressed feelings come out.

Be sure to click on the link to the actual arrest report.

http://www.tmz.com/2006/07/28/gibsons-anti...leged-cover-up/

We all know every word that comes out of a drunk's mouth is the absolute unvarnished gospel truth. Just ask any girl who has heard, "I love you, baby. No ****. Let's ****".
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
Alcoholics love to use alcohol as an excuse to evade responsibility for their actions. It is part of the syndrome. Just ask any guy who beat his wife while drunk: "Honey, it was the drink doing that, not me."
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Not always.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
You know, many people say that the New Testament is anti-Semitic, or at least that portions of it are anti-Semitic. I certainly agree that there are some pasages, particularly in the gospel according to Matthew, that have been interpreted as such, and used abusively in history against the Jews. One odd fact about considering Matthew anti-Semitic is that this particular gospel was originally written for a particular group of Chrisitians - most of whom were, themselves, Jewish. As such, I find it a little laughable for people to acribe anti-Semitic intent to its author/s.

More importantly, though, I'd suggest that if these New Testament passages meet the definition of anti-Semitism - which is apparently defined as "criticism of Jews" - that by far, the Old Testament - the Hebrew Bible - is far more "anti-Semitic" than anything in the New Testament.

Book after Book, chapter after chapter, the Old Testament repeatedly berates the Jews as being rebellious and "stiff-necked" people, continually rejecting God and the Law, facing the wrath of and direct condemnation from God, over and over again. The Hebrew Bible is full of stories of great faith of Jews, and great mercy and love of God, but so much of it - far, far more of it than the New Testament - is used to criticize the Jews, both its leaders and the general population. Here are holy texts, written by Jews, about Jews, for Jews, and huge amounts of it amount to criticism of the whole Hebrew population.

Now, do I actually believe that the Old Testament is anti-Semitic? Of course not. And using the same measuring stick, neither do I consider the New Testament to be anti-Semitic. I do get a bit tired of people calling the New Testament anti-Semitic when it contains far fewer, and far less severe, negative references directed in any way toward Jews than the Jewish holy scriptures themselves.

Written words can always be, and often are, twisted for evil intent long after they've been committed to paper. Criticism of specific Jews does not automatically equate to anti-Semitism. Criticism of some Jews is not criticism of all Jews. It wasn't the case in the days of Moses, and it wasn't the case in the days of the early Christians.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Dewey
Jul 31 2006, 07:37 PM
You know, many people say that the New Testament is anti-Semitic, or at least that portions of it are anti-Semitic. I certainly agree that there are some pasages, particularly in the gospel according to Matthew, that have been interpreted as such, and used abusively in history against the Jews. One odd fact about considering Matthew anti-Semitic is that this particular gospel was originally written for a particular group of Chrisitians - most of whom were, themselves, Jewish. As such, I find it a little laughable for people to acribe anti-Semitic intent to its author/s.

etc.

The problem with the NT being anti-semitic is not in what the NT says. It is how Christianity has interpreted it for centuries -- for the most part up until the holocaust.

"His blood be on us and on our children" could have been interpreted in any number of ways that did not include collective guilt of all Jews for all time.

But it wasn't.

No, the NT is not anti-semitic. It is Christianity that has been. Orthodox, Latin, Protestant.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
"The problem with the NT being anti-semitic is not in what the NT says. It is how Christianity has interpreted it for centuries..."

By many, yes, but not by all. I think I addressed that reality in my last paragraph. However, my comments are directed at claims that the New Testament itself is inherently anti-Semitic, which it is not.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Christianity has been. There have been those who seemed to have wanted to crucify the Jews on that same cross in vengeance. It seems that there are those who want to crucify Mell Gibson in the same sentiment although I would not attempt to equate Mel Gibson with Jesus or the Jewish people. Ever since he made TPOTC there has been some kind of need to read anti-semitism into it. I saw the movie and I did not see anti-semitism but that is just me. I have also said some incredibly stupid things while drunk that I really did not mean. I believe anyone should be held responsible for their acts while drunk but I will cut them some slack on their words. But, again, that is just me. What he said was despicable, obviously.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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David Burton
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Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 06:33 PM
Alcoholics love to use alcohol as an excuse to evade responsibility for their actions. It is part of the syndrome. Just ask any guy who beat his wife while drunk: "Honey, it was the drink doing that, not me."

Alcohol is not the only thing that works here, firearms do too. "It wasn't me, it was the handgun, honest." Don't give anyone the opportunity to use either as an excuse. It may be humane but it certainly isn't mature or responsible.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
In a bar one night about twenty years ago, during a tequila-inspired drunken stupor, I believed that I could breakdance. I can assure you that at no point in my life, before or since, have I ever really believed that I was a breakdancer. The alcohol made me believe and do things that particular night that I promise you were not anywhere in my subconscious being before the alcohol was in my bloodstream. I believe in accountability for one's actions while drunk too, but I don't automatically think that a person's actions or words while drunk are necessarily a mirror into his true being or beliefs.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
One odd fact about considering Matthew anti-Semitic is that this particular gospel was originally written for a particular group of Chrisitians - most of whom were, themselves, Jewish


well, actually while matthew can be the most "rabbinic" of gospels in terms of language, the final redactor of mathew, who was not jewish and knew only greek and not the original hebrew of matthew's sources, and this non jewish redactor took great pains to manipulate texts to give them an anti jewish bent, specifically aimed at greek gentile audiences looking to confirm the displacement of the jews as god's chosen with those that follow christ. (see...New Testament Studies Vol. 29, 1981 pp25-47)

im not going to go into all the comparisons of texts between gospels, and im certainly no greek scholar, but its clear the texts we have of the NT have been edited and redacted ad infinitum by people with agendas, thus diluting and actually manipulating the original sources of jesus' message.

anyway, this is scholarship and the masses could not care less, so if these texts can be used as a permission to prosecute non believers by the later middle age church, so be it, but that was far removed from the actual sources of the texts.

so yes, paradoxically, jesus rabbinic language is probably best preserved in matthew except where changed by later greek hands. i would say that jc would roll over in his grave reading it, , but that would not sound so applicable considering the empty tomb finale of the passion story.

p.s. and besides, isnt jsb's st mattew passion such a maginifcent work? no wonder jewish paul simon hijacked the main theme and copied it to make "american tune "
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Mikhailoh
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Dewey
Jul 31 2006, 11:01 PM
In a bar one night about twenty years ago, during a tequila-inspired drunken stupor, I believed that I could breakdance. I can assure you that at no point in my life, before or since, have I ever really believed that I was a breakdancer. The alcohol made me believe and do things that particular night that I promise you were not anywhere in my subconscious being before the alcohol was in my bloodstream. I believe in accountability for one's actions while drunk too, but I don't automatically think that a person's actions or words while drunk are necessarily a mirror into his true being or beliefs.

What would we pay for film of THAT.

I have said one or two things drunk that were untrue and unkind. I also got up and threw a punch at Tom Judy, intendning to open a big can of whupass on him. My punch never landed. He, however, managed to land quite a few.

But I also don't think 1.2 BAC is enough to make him not know what he was saying. That is legally intoxicated for the purpose of driving, but it is not raving drunk. Of course I guess he is a little dude.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Blood Alcohol Content is equalized for size. Size doesn't matter.

1.2 BAC is way past drunk for anyone. It only takes 0.02% to get put up for the night hereabouts. A BAC of 0.12% is pretty much ****-faced.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Wuss... :P
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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The 89th Key
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Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 09:08 PM
bach, jon - I disagree that the Passion is no more anti-semitic than the NT itself. One can chose many parts of the NT to emphasize. If Gibson wanted to make a movie about Jesus, he could have chosen to make a movie about how Jesus taught that we should do good to those who hate us and that it is harder for a rich person to enter heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. These comments are also in the NT. Gibson did not make a movie about those interesting and provocative themes. He chose to produce a sadomasochistic gore-fest, similar to a midevil German passion play, with all the traditional anti-semitic portions of the NT emphasized and highlighted.

Jeffery, you are so ignorant and wrong that it's incredible.

If you didn't know, Jesus' death on the cross and rising from the dead 3 days later is arguably the single most important event in human history; both as the cornerstone of the Christian faith, and also to world history and the impact that it consequently had.
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The 89th Key
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Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 09:16 PM
Also, it is not clear to me that Gibson apologized. Here is what he said: "I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse."

He is not sorry for anti-semitism. He is sorry he disgraced himself. His concern is self-centered and egotistical, not moral.

Jeffery, I honestly don't specifically pick on you, but you are totally embarassing yourself and couldn't be more intellectually dishonest.

John D'Oh already quickly pointed out the part of Gibson's apology that you conveniently omitted.

Grow up, and try not to deceive people for once on this board.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
phhht
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Mikhailoh
Jul 31 2006, 10:54 PM
Wuss... :P

Who, me or Mel Gibson?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 05:59 PM
IT: "tell people that they don't have freedom of speech, discourse and inquiry when it comes to speaking about that particular group. You can train people to walk on eggshells around your favorite caste of people, and train people that any comments, questions, or criticism of your favorite caste of people is evil, hateful, and to be stomped out by whatever means necessary, but that will only make things worse. "

"criticism of your favorite caste of people"??    Please continue.

General statement for a general principle, Jeff.

Please continue.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
JBryan
Jul 31 2006, 07:50 PM

1.2 BAC is way past drunk for anyone.

With that amount of booze in my system I'd be lucky to find a toilet to hurl in much less find where I left the truck to drive away.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'm pulling this out of my a$$, but if Gibson is a reformed alcoholic who hasn't drunk in a long time isn't he less likely to be able to control the effects of alcohol? I know when I drank on a more regular basis, the effects for a particular quantity of beer drunk appeared to become less over time. I've read that the physical effects are actually the same, but that your brain becomes used to dealing with them, so you feel less drunk. This is why some regular drinkers feel that they are OK to drive, even though their physical reaction times have gone to hell, their brain is fooling them into thinking they're OK.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
I have always been amazed at how, even after one drink, my piano playing goes to hell. There's no accuracy. Things get sloppy and runs and scales get uneven.

On a different note:

Circumstances Positively Demand This:

A schoolteacher asks her students to identify various quotes, by author and year.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident ...," she says.
"Thomas Jefferson, 1776!," shouts out little Moishe.
"Very good!," she says. "Now, government of the people, by the people, for the people ...."
"Abraham Lincoln, 1863!," shouts out little Shmuel.
"Very good!," the teacher says. "Now, one small step for man, one giant leap ...."
"Neil Armstrong, 1969!," says Moishe.
A voice from the back of the room mutters, "F***ing Jews."
"WHO SAID THAT?," bellows the teacher.
"Mel Gibson, 2006!," says Shmuel.

(I probably get some cross thread points for that one, because of the Neil Armstorng reference. Moderator?)
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I don't even need one drink for my piano playing to go to hell.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
George K
Aug 1 2006, 09:07 AM
I have always been amazed at how, even after one drink, my piano playing goes to hell. There's no accuracy. Things get sloppy and runs and scales get uneven.

On a different note:

Circumstances Positively Demand This:

A schoolteacher asks her students to identify various quotes, by author and year.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident ...," she says.
"Thomas Jefferson, 1776!," shouts out little Moishe.
"Very good!," she says. "Now, government of the people, by the people, for the people ...."
"Abraham Lincoln, 1863!," shouts out little Shmuel.
"Very good!," the teacher says. "Now, one small step for man, one giant leap ...."
"Neil Armstrong, 1969!," says Moishe.
A voice from the back of the room mutters, "F***ing Jews."
"WHO SAID THAT?," bellows the teacher.
"Mel Gibson, 2006!," says Shmuel.

(I probably get some cross thread points for that one, because of the Neil Armstorng reference. Moderator?)

Hee hee....

I am the same way with piano.. if I have had even one glass of wine, forget playing anything I don't have thoroughly memorized. I will occasionally sit down at the piano with my first glass of wine before starting dinner, and sip it over the hour or so, but that is it.

That Larry could play so damn well drunk on the recordings he posted was just incredible. i will probably never play that well sober. :(
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Aug 1 2006, 05:07 AM
I have always been amazed at how, even after one drink, my piano playing goes to hell. There's no accuracy. Things get sloppy and runs and scales get uneven.

On a different note:

Circumstances Positively Demand This:

A schoolteacher asks her students to identify various quotes, by author and year.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident ...," she says.
"Thomas Jefferson, 1776!," shouts out little Moishe.
"Very good!," she says. "Now, government of the people, by the people, for the people ...."
"Abraham Lincoln, 1863!," shouts out little Shmuel.
"Very good!," the teacher says. "Now, one small step for man, one giant leap ...."
"Neil Armstrong, 1969!," says Moishe.
A voice from the back of the room mutters, "F***ing Jews."
"WHO SAID THAT?," bellows the teacher.
"Mel Gibson, 2006!," says Shmuel.

(I probably get some cross thread points for that one, because of the Neil Armstorng reference. Moderator?)

no no no!

I got called down on points for calling attention to a cross reference....

I think that's a technical foul, opposition to the line:


:basketball:
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