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Mel Gibson and the ****ing Jews
Topic Started: Jul 30 2006, 09:43 AM (2,839 Views)
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 06:34 AM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 05:28 AM


Look, in IT's defense....it's the same thing as if I said I hated black people. Someone might say, "Where does Isaac's racism come from?" and a friend replying, "Perhaps he developed it when he lived in that apartment complex with 95% black people."


(end of lightening things up)

So the assumption would be that the problems one would have in an apratment building is the result of skin color of the other tenants. Or, the the problems Gibson might encounter in the Hollywood system is the result of the religion of some powerful people who work there.

Sorry, IT's comment was quite revealing.

Revealing of what, Phleebs? I've worked for Jews who are real mensches: they were very generous to me in a time of great need, and while we have lost touch due to life circumstances I continue to hold them dear in my heart. If and when we ever get together again I am confident that the friendship and mutual respect would resume immediately.

You can infer anything you want, but you would be wrong to continue following the lynch party that is forming here.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
kenny
Jul 31 2006, 07:04 AM
AlbertaCrude
Jul 31 2006, 07:02 AM
kenny
Jul 31 2006, 06:36 AM
I admit and demonatrate here all the time that I am a bigot.

I discriminate against people who discriminate.   :blink:

As well as people who drive large North American built trucks.

Yup!
True That!

Like all bigots I have my reasons...
The single most important thing a person can do to help the Number One problem facing our country is select a high MPG vehicle.


Our country? I doubt it.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
How is buying a high mileage vehicle going to solve the crisis in social security, pension funds and post-retirement healthcare? Maybe it will allow aged Americans to drive to Canada for cheaper drugs?

;)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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The 89th Key
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Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 12:16 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 07:54 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 09:34 AM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 05:28 AM


Look, in IT's defense....it's the same thing as if I said I hated black people. Someone might say, "Where does Isaac's racism come from?" and a friend replying, "Perhaps he developed it when he lived in that apartment complex with 95% black people."


(end of lightening things up)

So the assumption would be that the problems one would have in an apratment building is the result of skin color of the other tenants. Or, the the problems Gibson might encounter in the Hollywood system is the result of the religion of some powerful people who work there.

Sorry, IT's comment was quite revealing.

Revealing how so?

For a silly example...lets say someone is afraid of cakes. Yes, cakes.

I asked why would one have an irrational fear of cakes.

IT said that well...that person had been working with cakes for a while.

Cakes aren't inherently dangerous, but perhaps someone's long exposure to them maybe indeed be the source of such an irrational fear.

IT was only saying that perhaps the SOURCE of Gibson's anti-semitism somewhere stems from his working with jewish people all the time.

To infer anything beyond IT's comment is wrong.

I'll just go ahead and infer what I want to - despite protestations.

BTW, your example is pretty silly.

IT is fully capable of defending his statements here. He does so pretty much ad nauseum. No reason to go to the nth degree with examples.

BTW, I already said I'm far from perfect.

While you infer, could you also answer my question?

How is it revealing? Ivory has asked you the same thing.

You should know by now that I will rarely sit back when I or someone else is incorrectly accussed of something. If you are inferring that Ivory is an anti-semite, then go on.

But I already made it clear with both normal and silly examples, that what Ivory said (that perhaps Gibson's anti-semitism may have it's source in his Hollywood interaction) is not offensive nor irrational. Think about it.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Some of my best friends are Jews.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 09:43 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 12:16 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 07:54 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 09:34 AM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 05:28 AM


Look, in IT's defense....it's the same thing as if I said I hated black people. Someone might say, "Where does Isaac's racism come from?" and a friend replying, "Perhaps he developed it when he lived in that apartment complex with 95% black people."


(end of lightening things up)

So the assumption would be that the problems one would have in an apratment building is the result of skin color of the other tenants. Or, the the problems Gibson might encounter in the Hollywood system is the result of the religion of some powerful people who work there.

Sorry, IT's comment was quite revealing.

Revealing how so?

For a silly example...lets say someone is afraid of cakes. Yes, cakes.

I asked why would one have an irrational fear of cakes.

IT said that well...that person had been working with cakes for a while.

Cakes aren't inherently dangerous, but perhaps someone's long exposure to them maybe indeed be the source of such an irrational fear.

IT was only saying that perhaps the SOURCE of Gibson's anti-semitism somewhere stems from his working with jewish people all the time.

To infer anything beyond IT's comment is wrong.

I'll just go ahead and infer what I want to - despite protestations.

BTW, your example is pretty silly.

IT is fully capable of defending his statements here. He does so pretty much ad nauseum. No reason to go to the nth degree with examples.

BTW, I already said I'm far from perfect.

While you infer, could you also answer my question?

How is it revealing? Ivory has asked you the same thing.

You should know by now that I will rarely sit back when I or someone else is incorrectly accussed of something. If you are inferring that Ivory is an anti-semite, then go on.

But I already made it clear with both normal and silly examples, that what Ivory said (that perhaps Gibson's anti-semitism may have it's source in his Hollywood interaction) is not offensive nor irrational. Think about it.

I don't want to sound unkind. What it reveals - or reaffirms - is, despite protestation to the contrary, IT is like the rest of us - not morally inferior, but not morally superior either.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
Kincaid
Jul 31 2006, 09:46 AM
Some of my best friends are Jews.

Indeed
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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The 89th Key
Member Avatar

Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 01:51 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 09:43 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 12:16 PM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 07:54 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 09:34 AM
The 89th Key
Jul 31 2006, 05:28 AM


Look, in IT's defense....it's the same thing as if I said I hated black people. Someone might say, "Where does Isaac's racism come from?" and a friend replying, "Perhaps he developed it when he lived in that apartment complex with 95% black people."


(end of lightening things up)

So the assumption would be that the problems one would have in an apratment building is the result of skin color of the other tenants. Or, the the problems Gibson might encounter in the Hollywood system is the result of the religion of some powerful people who work there.

Sorry, IT's comment was quite revealing.

Revealing how so?

For a silly example...lets say someone is afraid of cakes. Yes, cakes.

I asked why would one have an irrational fear of cakes.

IT said that well...that person had been working with cakes for a while.

Cakes aren't inherently dangerous, but perhaps someone's long exposure to them maybe indeed be the source of such an irrational fear.

IT was only saying that perhaps the SOURCE of Gibson's anti-semitism somewhere stems from his working with jewish people all the time.

To infer anything beyond IT's comment is wrong.

I'll just go ahead and infer what I want to - despite protestations.

BTW, your example is pretty silly.

IT is fully capable of defending his statements here. He does so pretty much ad nauseum. No reason to go to the nth degree with examples.

BTW, I already said I'm far from perfect.

While you infer, could you also answer my question?

How is it revealing? Ivory has asked you the same thing.

You should know by now that I will rarely sit back when I or someone else is incorrectly accussed of something. If you are inferring that Ivory is an anti-semite, then go on.

But I already made it clear with both normal and silly examples, that what Ivory said (that perhaps Gibson's anti-semitism may have it's source in his Hollywood interaction) is not offensive nor irrational. Think about it.

I don't want to sound unkind. What it reveals - or reaffirms - is, despite protestation to the contrary, IT is like the rest of us - not morally inferior, but not morally superior either.

I'm just confused as to where you would infer anything about Ivory's moral status from what he said.

I asked where Gibson's source of anti-semitism might come from and Ivory mentioned that Gibson has worked in the volatile environment of Hollywood where there is unquestionably a large presence of Jews, and that experience may have been a source for Gibson's anti-semetic comments.

This says nothing bad about Jews, and says nothing about Ivory's character.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Geez guys, don't you think you're taking this a bit far? I often disagree with much of what IT says, but I think you might want to cut him a break here. Ad-hominem attacks, or worse, in my opinion, innuendo, don't exactly make for free and open discussion, do they?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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dolmansaxlil
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jul 31 2006, 01:58 PM
Geez guys, don't you think you're taking this a bit far? I often disagree with much of what IT says, but I think you might want to cut him a break here. Ad-hominem attacks, or worse, in my opinion, innuendo, don't exactly make for free and open discussion, do they?

I agree, on all counts. (Mark this one on your calendar, IT, it's not often I'll defend you ;) )
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson

My Flickr Photostream


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The 89th Key
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Dol, just got back from a Pro-Life rally, I see? :P
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 10:51 AM

I don't want to sound unkind. What it reveals - or reaffirms - is, despite protestation to the contrary, IT is like the rest of us - not morally inferior, but not morrally superior either.

WTF does that mean? I never made a single claim of moral superiority, and nothing I wrote indicates anything about my judgment of myself or others. Do you think that because I frequently try to lay out a structure of moral thought that this is some sort of moral high handedness? So for you anyone who asks moral questions, or offers a way of navigating the moral sphere is claiming superiority? Does it not occur to you that those who are asking the questions and offering reflections might be acutely aware of their own moral standing, and place themselves comfortably within the mass of all humanity?

I am not a very good painter, but I can tell good art from bad art. And part of becoming a good painter is acquiring an eye for what works and what doesn't, long before anything is mastered. Another part is developing the habits of good painting, and studying the way good painters paint, and talking about good painting with others who are either good painters or want to be good painters, and practicing. None of that is about superiority, Phleebs. You are projecting your own issues here.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
dolmansaxlil
Jul 31 2006, 11:01 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 31 2006, 01:58 PM
Geez guys, don't you think you're taking this a bit far? I often disagree with much of what IT says, but I think you might want to cut him a break here. Ad-hominem attacks, or worse, in my opinion, innuendo, don't exactly make for free and open discussion, do they?

I agree, on all counts. (Mark this one on your calendar, IT, it's not often I'll defend you ;) )

:hug: :hug: to both of you. Thank you.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Yeah, I don't get this either. I'm trying to look for IT's "revealing comments" in this thread, and I've read everything over a couple times now, and I don't even see what everyone's referring to.

Far as I can see, things be fine. Or at least they should be since there's nothing in here that should get anyone's panties up in a bunch. Leave that job to today's ridiculous humidity.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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No doubt Aqua...I ate lunch outside today.

That was fun.

:weeping:
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Phlebas
Member Avatar
Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Jul 31 2006, 10:02 AM
Phlebas
Jul 31 2006, 10:51 AM

I don't want to sound unkind. What it reveals - or reaffirms - is, despite protestation to the contrary, IT is like the rest of us - not morally inferior, but not morrally superior either.

WTF does that mean? I never made a single claim of moral superiority, and nothing I wrote indicates anything about my judgment of myself or others. Do you think that because I frequently try to lay out a structure of moral thought that this is some sort of moral high handedness? So for you anyone who asks moral questions, or offers a way of navigating the moral sphere is claiming superiority? Does it not occur to you that those who are asking the questions and offering reflections might be acutely aware of their own moral standing, and place themselves comfortably within the mass of all humanity?

I am not a very good painter, but I can tell good art from bad art. And part of becoming a good painter is acquiring an eye for what works and what doesn't, long before anything is mastered. Another part is developing the habits of good painting, and studying the way good painters paint, and talking about good painting with others who are either good painters or want to be good painters, and practicing. None of that is about superiority, Phleebs. You are projecting your own issues here.

IT.
I have no issues with you. I rarely even have any exchanges with you. Consider it dropped.
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jul 31 2006, 11:04 AM
dolmansaxlil
Jul 31 2006, 11:01 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 31 2006, 01:58 PM
Geez guys, don't you think you're taking this a bit far? I often disagree with much of what IT says, but I think you might want to cut him a break here. Ad-hominem attacks, or worse, in my opinion, innuendo, don't exactly make for free and open discussion, do they?

I agree, on all counts. (Mark this one on your calendar, IT, it's not often I'll defend you ;) )

:hug: :hug: to both of you. Thank you.

I don't get it either, so will throw my name in as well. Since I rarely agree with you, IT, I should take this opportunity to play nice. :smile:
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
sue
Jul 31 2006, 02:24 PM
I don't get it either, so will throw my name in as well. Since I rarely agree with you, IT, I should take this opportunity to play nice. :smile:

We'll lull him into a false sense of security, and then BAM! he won't know what hit him.

:sword:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Heh heh. Good plan, Dr. John :devilgrin:
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
IT: "tell people that they don't have freedom of speech, discourse and inquiry when it comes to speaking about that particular group. You can train people to walk on eggshells around your favorite caste of people, and train people that any comments, questions, or criticism of your favorite caste of people is evil, hateful, and to be stomped out by whatever means necessary, but that will only make things worse. "

"criticism of your favorite caste of people"?? Please continue.
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
bach, jon - I disagree that the Passion is no more anti-semitic than the NT itself. One can chose many parts of the NT to emphasize. If Gibson wanted to make a movie about Jesus, he could have chosen to make a movie about how Jesus taught that we should do good to those who hate us and that it is harder for a rich person to enter heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. These comments are also in the NT. Gibson did not make a movie about those interesting and provocative themes. He chose to produce a sadomasochistic gore-fest, similar to a midevil German passion play, with all the traditional anti-semitic portions of the NT emphasized and highlighted.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 05:08 PM
If Gibson wanted to make a movie about Jesus, he could have chosen to make a movie about how Jesus taught ... that it is harder for a rich person to enter heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. These comments are also in the NT. Gibson did not make a movie about those interesting and provocative themes.

I agree, but that wouldn't have put a lot of bums in seats.
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
Also, it is not clear to me that Gibson apologized. Here is what he said: "I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse."

He is not sorry for anti-semitism. He is sorry he disgraced himself. His concern is self-centered and egotistical, not moral.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
It's now clear that Gibson's act of contrition is for having wet and fouled himself whilst in a drunken state.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jeffrey
Jul 31 2006, 09:16 PM
Also, it is not clear to me that Gibson apologized. Here is what he said: "I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse."

He is not sorry for anti-semitism. He is sorry he disgraced himself. His concern is self-centered and egotistical, not moral.

In the report I read he also said:

'I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable.

"I am deeply ashamed of everything I said and I apologize to anyone who I have offended.'

Let's face it, it is extremely unlikely that he would not apologize for the anti-semitism, whether he meant it or not. Nobody could be that stupid.

Personally, I think there's good and bad in all of us. We've just seen some of the bad in someone who happens to be famous and an alcoholic.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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