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God help us from these lunatics
Topic Started: Jul 5 2006, 02:50 PM (1,551 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Isn't New England enough for you people? We all know that God is an Englishman, after all.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Rick Zimmer
Jul 7 2006, 02:02 PM
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 12:00 PM
Rick Zimmer
Jul 7 2006, 12:57 PM
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 11:51 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 7 2006, 12:48 PM
If God really did do a deal with the Israelites, an examination of what has happened to them since might make one question the advantages that such a covenant bestows.

Examine away.

Every time the nation turns against God, they suffer.

Are you implying (perhaps even claiming) the same or a similar relationship between God and the United States as He had with the Israel of the Old Testament?

Ah, trying so hard to work the New Israel theory....

Want to answer the question, Jolly?

I am not the one who made the parallel. Dwain is.

I rejected it. He backed down from clarified his position.

Do you accept the parallel -- or something like it -- or do your reject it?

Do you think God has a relationship with the United States of America the same as or similar to the one He had with the Israel of the Old Testament.

Last time I looked, the United States of America was not mentioned in the Bible.

OTOH, neither was the Roman Catholic Church....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 01:52 PM
Rick Zimmer
Jul 7 2006, 02:02 PM
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 12:00 PM
Rick Zimmer
Jul 7 2006, 12:57 PM
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 11:51 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 7 2006, 12:48 PM
If God really did do a deal with the Israelites, an examination of what has happened to them since might make one question the advantages that such a covenant bestows.

Examine away.

Every time the nation turns against God, they suffer.

Are you implying (perhaps even claiming) the same or a similar relationship between God and the United States as He had with the Israel of the Old Testament?

Ah, trying so hard to work the New Israel theory....

Want to answer the question, Jolly?

I am not the one who made the parallel. Dwain is.

I rejected it. He backed down from clarified his position.

Do you accept the parallel -- or something like it -- or do your reject it?

Do you think God has a relationship with the United States of America the same as or similar to the one He had with the Israel of the Old Testament.

Last time I looked, the United States of America was not mentioned in the Bible.

OTOH, neither was the Roman Catholic Church....

Since you don't want to directly answer the question, let's try this one.

Do you believe God has a relationship with the USA? If so, what is the nature of it? Again, if so, what is the US's obligations under that relationship? And finally if so, do you think He has the same or a similar relationship with other countries?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Jolly
Jul 7 2006, 12:52 PM

Last time I looked, the United States of America was not mentioned in the Bible.

OTOH, neither was the Roman Catholic Church....

No I'm pretty certain Hal Lindsey and a few notable others would purport that there's some obvious and irrefutable references to both in Revelation and throughout the OT.

If not in either of those good tomes, try the Book of Mormon; being that it was written and first published within the USA. I'm certain there would be plenty of local references and human interest tales; although I'm not sure if the RCC figures anywhere in its yarns.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sorry Rick, I haven't backed down from a single thing I've said in this thread. My pedals don't even know how to go backward.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Ummm, Rick -- you don't exactly have the moral high ground for trying to hold other folks feet to the fire to answer direct questions.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Especially since the person whose feet he's trying to hold has answered his questoins very forthrightly.

Rick's problem here is this: he read my original post, and knowing I am a conservative Christian, he suspected that I believed the same thing as those "damned evangelicals," as he calls them - some of whom do indeed believe that the US is the "new Israel," in the sense of being a nation uniquely chosen by God to advance God's will on earth. He immediately placed my words into his preconceived template of my beliefs, and went off in that direction.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, in his rush to call me arrogant, he missed my actual point. Had I been using the term "new Israelites" in the way he thought, I'd have most definitely not said that I worried if (and prayed that we weren't) these "new Israelites." He assumed I was using the term to claim some special cachet for our country, or that I meant it as a complement. My actual words show that this was obviously not what I was saying. So now, as I clarify my position to him, and it still doesn't fit into his preconceived template, he can only claim that I'm backpedaling.



"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Get up in the morning slaving for bread sir
So that every mouth can be fed
Oooh, oooh me ears are alight.

Mi wife an ma kids them a pack up an a leave me
Darling she said I was yours to be seen
Oooh, oooh me ears are alight

Who am I workin for?

Cho! shirt dem a tear-up trousers a go
I dont wan to end up like bonny and clyde
Oooh, oooh me ears are alight

After a storm there must be a calm
Uou catch me in your farm, you sound your alarm
Oooh, oooh me ears are alight


Sorry. It's Friday night, and Mrs. D'Oh has gone scrapbooking, at least that what she tells me. I should probably go and do something constructive. I think there's a corkscrew around here somewhere....
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Find yer corkscrew Johnnie m' lad, pour a dram and sing along with this Yorkshire ballad:

The Wanton Wife of Castlegate

Oh there was a wife in Castlegate but I won't tell of her name
For she is both brisk and buxom and she likes a tumbling game
She can nip and she can trip me boys as she runs over the plain
Till she meets with the jolly boating man and she's off with him again
Well he says me Molly Orney and could you fancy me?
Come on up to my ship's cabin and contented we will be
For I have got gold and silver and of you I will take care
And a whopping great pair of horns me gal your husband he shall wear

For your husband he's a silly old fool and blind as blind can be
And so to wear the horns me gal contented he must be
He can wriggle them at his leisure he can do the best he can
While his wife she takes her pleasure with the jolly boating man

Well at Pomfret clock and tower me gal we've silver in great store
And I wish that I could find it for then we'd have us a roar
For we'd supper wine and whisky keep the beer ale in store
Here's to you me lads and lasses and to tipplers evermore!





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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Rick, I know you think when the Bible talks about the Church (with a capital C) it is referring to the Catholic church, but that's *your* mistake. You say the New Testament only speaks to the individual. You are mistaken. First, the New Testament is only one part of the Bible. The Old Testament didn't become irrelevant as a result of it. In fact, most of the New Testament was written *to* the Church - again, not the Catholic Church, but the entire Church. So while the New Testament certainly does speak to the individual, it also speaks to the entire Church, which is the entire body of Christian believers whether they be Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, or whatever.

So - does God have a relationship with the USA? That's a silly question to anyone who understands Christianity. Maybe you think the only people God is paying any attention to is the Catholic Church, but that would be a serious error on your part. God has a relationship with his Church - wherever they might be - not the country. As much as you may think religion is a political tool, it is not. God could care less about the politics of the USA, or any other country for that matter. God has a relationship with his Church, *and* he has a personal relationship with each individual in the Church. God's relationship with the Israel of old was with the *people* of Israel, not their geography.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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