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| God help us from these lunatics | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2006, 02:50 PM (1,554 Views) | |
| Dewey | Jul 6 2006, 03:50 AM Post #26 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You missed my point in your rush to call me arrogant. I don't believe the US is any more chosen or favored by God than any other country in history. On the other hand, I do believe that every individual, and every society, is, in fact "set aside," chosen, called, if you will, to a particular intention by our Creator. To the contrary, my question whether the US can be seen as the "new Israel" is metaphoric and non-specific, and has nothing to do with whether the US, or any nation, has any "unique" standing in the eyes of God. If anything, it's actually the exact opposite. It's whether we are in the midst of repeating the history of any society that turns its attention away from God. Put another way, it's whether we've learned nothing from history and we're going to suffer the fate of so many other metaphorical "Israels" throughout history. Christian thought varies in how much, when, and where God deliberately works God's will through creation, but it is a core tenet of the faith that it does, in fact, occur, in both the individual lives as well as cultures. As to America's, and Americans', need for greater humility, I agree with you. But greater humilty without greater devotion to God is hollow, meaningless, and ultimately just another form of arrogance itself. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 6 2006, 05:56 AM Post #27 |
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In the article it mentions how they revealed the statue by pulling off the brown cloak that was hiding it at first. |
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| Jolly | Jul 6 2006, 06:19 AM Post #28 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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No exclusion here, bub. Just remember, we will assimilate you! |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jul 6 2006, 06:36 AM Post #29 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Assimilate whom into what? |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Phlebas | Jul 6 2006, 08:25 AM Post #30 |
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Bull-Carp
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Two questions: 1) Is it on church property (it seems to be)? 2) Is it breaking any zoning ordinances? If "yes" to #1, and "no" to #2, I don't have much of a problem with it. If I were a member of the church, I might question their taste, and use of 250K, though. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| sue | Jul 6 2006, 12:56 PM Post #31 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Wow. do you really think this? I agree the statue thing is just tacky and unimportant, but this statement jumped out at me. |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 6 2006, 01:08 PM Post #32 |
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Sue, I don't want to speak for Dwain, but perhaps it can be agreed that regardless of what one believes, that if the nation were more religious, there wouldn't be as many "national ills" - crimes, etc. Very much like if there were good parents (or two-parent homes) out there - there would be less crime, etc. I say that because (like a good family) religion brings stability, discipline, and morals to many people who otherwise might not have it. Obviously there are non-religious people like you Sue, John D, Mark, Kenny, Moonbat, etc...who are perfectly fine great citizens - so don't take my remarks personally. Basically, of the friends I had that went to church regularly compared to the friends I had that didn't....those who didn't sure as found themselves in more negative situations. |
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| kenny | Jul 6 2006, 01:17 PM Post #33 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Then again maybe more children would be safe if there were fewer priests. See? You just can't generalize. There are good and bad people in and out of the church. |
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| Dewey | Jul 6 2006, 01:17 PM Post #34 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes sue, I really do. Now whether a person feels the obvious ills within our society are the result of a literal, Michelangelo-esque "direct hand of God" acting in anger against us puny mortals; or if it's actually something more more subtle than that - that these instructions God has given us for living according with God's ideal aren't arbitrary at all, but when applied, actually work together for the good and betterment of us as individuals and society at large, and not living in accordance with them simply produces personal and societal dysfunctions - is another issue altogether. An illustration of what I mean: I buy a trampoline, and it comes with assembly and use instructions. I toss the instructions aside (hey, I'm a guy ), and I put the thing together the way I think it should be done. I have a few parts leftover, but what the heck, it looks like the picture on the box, and it seems to work okay. I start jumping on the trampoline, and while I'm using it, it collapses because I didn't follow the assembly instructions, and I end up with several broken bones.Under this scenario, can I say that my injuries - my ills - are the result of my refusal to listen to - my turning away from - the instructions for proper use given to me, for my own good? I think I certainly could. But I don't think I could say with any degree of accuracy that I was injured as a result of the wrath, or direct anger, at me on the part of the trampoline manufacturer for not following the instructions. I believe it's the same in the case of society. I believe that God gave us a set of assembly and use instructions for our own good as we go through life, and when we don't adhere to them, it's us, and those around us, who suffer. Hope that clarifies. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jul 6 2006, 01:22 PM Post #35 |
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Bull-Carp
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The problem is that God has given many sets of instructions- The Torah, The New Testament, the Koran, etc. . I am told however that not all these divine manuals have equal wieght or authority. |
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| kenny | Jul 6 2006, 01:31 PM Post #36 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Perhaps leaving religion out of it is best. Individuals are responsible for their choices, with religion or not. |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jul 6 2006, 01:39 PM Post #37 |
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Bull-Carp
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Ah yes, but as imperfective flesh and blood, people succumb to temptation and lose their instinctive fear of divine retribution. |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 6 2006, 01:40 PM Post #38 |
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And the children would be safer too if there were no teachers - since they have a higher rate of molestation than priests (or at least I've heard). Regardless, I don't think it's really up for debate that religion and churches do FAR MORE good for the community than harm. |
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| Dewey | Jul 6 2006, 01:41 PM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yeah, that is the tricky part, isn't it? What interests me is not so much the differences among these instruction books, but the relative consistency. Most of the specific things that people are referring to when they talk about spiritual or moral dysfunctions in a society are dealt with in remarkably consistent manner in most of these instruction books - even those that I don't particularly consider the authoritative word of God. Regardless of what aspects they may have gotten wrong, it's amazing to me how much of at least the "code for living," if you will, is consistent even given breathtakingly different core theology. It seems that all of them have latched onto at least a chunk of some larger truth. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Axtremus | Jul 6 2006, 02:00 PM Post #40 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The "larger truth" and "codes of living" come from common human desires. Most people don't like to have their stuff taken from them -- so you have "thou shalt not steal" in various instruction books. Most people don't like to get killed -- so you have "thou shalt not kill" in various instruction books. Most bigger people like deference from the little people for whom they provide -- os you have "thou shalt respect thy parents/elders" in various instruction books. etc. Some "codes of living" are more condusive to a society surviving through the eras, and those are what remain today after "natural selection."
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| Jolly | Jul 6 2006, 02:00 PM Post #41 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Yep.
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| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Jul 6 2006, 02:06 PM Post #42 |
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MAMIL
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Is this just in America, or the whole world? I suggest that a good dose of secularism would do Iran and Afghanistan the power of good. Most of the knob-heads in those countries are pretty religious. The knob-head is, of course, universal, and is outside any constraints of religion, race or anything else for that matter. The knob-heads are always with us. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jul 6 2006, 02:15 PM Post #43 |
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Bull-Carp
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:yes:... and those same knobheads take their instruction manual quite literally. |
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| Dewey | Jul 6 2006, 02:15 PM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I agree. We may disagree, however, on just why they are such universally held attitudes, and how they came to be so firmly implanted in our human makeup. I do not believe that God only speaks to human beings through written words on paper (or chiseled in stone, if you prefer). I believe that we have been created in such a manner, that we're "wired" in such a way, that certain basic codes for living are embedded within us, regardless of whether we grew up under the influence of one or another instruction book, or none at all. The fact that we're relatively universally constructed to understand these essentials is, in my opinion, no accident. You may think it's a result of natural selection; I think that whatever mechanics achieved it, it was on purpose. The point remains: our failure to adhere to those essentials will cause a great deal of trouble for us as individuals and as a society. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Dewey | Jul 6 2006, 02:18 PM Post #45 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Of course, that just goes back to the questoin of whether all religions are of equal merit. Start a new thread for that one, and fasten your seat belts. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 6 2006, 02:22 PM Post #46 |
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I can only speak for my country, so yes. Although perhaps I could be talking about the whole world, but only regarding the Christian religion.
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| AlbertaCrude | Jul 6 2006, 02:31 PM Post #47 |
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Bull-Carp
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| John D'Oh | Jul 6 2006, 02:35 PM Post #48 |
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MAMIL
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I'll leave that to someone else. I'm giving up starting serious threads for Restrictus* *Restrictus - A non-discriminatoryand non-demoninational festival of approximately 40 days** where the subject is invited to give up something which really annoys other people. ** - the period of Restrictus can be reduced significantly due to lack of moral fiber, or boredom. We're not d'ogmatic in the people's Church of D'Oh. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| George K | Jul 6 2006, 02:47 PM Post #49 |
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Finally
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I tend to stay out of religious threads, mostly because of ignorance (at least self-acknowledged ignorance). But, am I the only one that sees the irony in the title of the thread in view of the discussion.. "God help us from these lunatics?" |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| DivaDeb | Jul 6 2006, 02:49 PM Post #50 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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thought maybe the irony was by design (excuse my use of the 'd' word) I think JBryan commented on the thread title. |
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), and I put the thing together the way I think it should be done. I have a few parts leftover, but what the heck, it looks like the picture on the box, and it seems to work okay. I start jumping on the trampoline, and while I'm using it, it collapses because I didn't follow the assembly instructions, and I end up with several broken bones.
11:09 AM Jul 11