| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Hatred from the Pulpit; Assassinations Urged | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 18 2006, 10:01 AM (182 Views) | |
| George K | Jun 18 2006, 10:01 AM Post #1 |
|
Finally
|
A reporter for the Times of London went undercover at a British mosque, and guess what he discovered? UK Imam Supports Attack on Blair. BRIGHTON, England - June 18, 2006 (UPI) -- A militant British Muslim imam says both Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.S. President George Bush are "legitimate targets" for terrorist attacks. Abubaker Deghayes made the remarks to an undercover reporter in Brighton for The Times of London, which reported the conversation Sunday. The reporter spent two weeks at the Al-Quds mosque, which on Fridays, draws 100 to 200 worshippers. Deghayes reportedly agreed with a Respect party's member of parliament's remarks several weeks ago that an attack on the prime minister by a suicide bomber could be morally justified. And here in the US? Muslims leery of FBI activity Assurances that the community isn't under watch meet with skepticism. By CINDY CARCAMO and SONYA SMITH The Orange County Register Marya Bangee doesn't know what to believe. The UC Irvine sophomore thinks the fact that she's Muslim is the reason she's been singled out for searches at airports and been scrutinized by police at anti-war demonstrations. She's also distrustful of the FBI, uncertain whether the agency is telling the complete story of whether its employees are monitoring Orange County's Muslim community. Her doubts loom a week after Muslim leaders and an FBI senior agent shook hands and patted each other on the back, concluding a meeting that addressed conflicting reports as to whether the community is being watched. Los Angeles FBI Assistant Director Stephen Tidwell adamantly denied that his agents were monitoring Orange County's Muslim community. "The Muslim community is not of concern to us," he told more than 200 people at the Islamic Center of Irvine. Bangee called the meeting a "good start to a relationship." "But I do not think we accomplished anything as yet," she said. The issue arose May 24, when Pat Rose, head of FBI's Orange County al-Qaida squad, said during a meeting of the Pacific Club that "there are a lot of individuals of interest." Asked whether citizens should be worried about activist Muslim students at UCI, she said it was "another tough question to answer." The FBI hasn't said who is being monitored, but Rose admitted that electronic surveillance is being used in Orange County. Robert J. Cristiano of Newport Beach, who attended the Pacific Club meeting, said some are misinterpreting Rose's comments. "I think it's much ado about nothing," said Cristiano, a club member who was speaking only for himself. "What I heard her say was that no community is immune. I took it as she stated it. No group is singled out. No group is immune (from surveillance)." Bangee's skepticism of exactly what is going on may be warranted, said an Arab-American civil-rights activist and a former FBI agent. They cite several instances of agents asking people which mosque they attend and whom they visited during family vacations to the Middle East. The Muslim community and the FBI are like two ships passing in the night, said James Wedick, a 35-year FBI agent who owns an investigations agency in a Sacramento suburb. "The bureau has yet to honestly deal with how to communicate with the Arab and Muslim community and the Arab community distrusts them because of good reason because of paid informants getting sent into the community for less than legitimate reasons," he said. The FBI community is upset by Rose's statements, he said. "She was probably being more candid than Tidwell would want you to believe," said Wedick, whose wife works for the agency. "Now they're trying to repair the damage that they've done." Ban Al-Wardi, an activist in the Arab-American community and an immigration lawyer, said the FBI typically denies monitoring a group. She said she's worked cases in Orange County and elsewhere in Southern California in which agents monitored board meetings and the financial transactions of Arab-American organizations. In addition, she said, agents have asked college students questions about their mosque and what the iman preaches. She said the FBI tries to gain the community's trust on the pretext of protecting Muslims from hate crimes and backlash. Another question is whether monitoring is legal and protected by the Patriot Act, which was enacted after 9/11 and dramatically expands the terrorism-fighting authority of U.S. law enforcement. Wedick said agents must have reasonable suspicion of some type of criminal activity before they monitor or investigate a community or a person. Agents invited by community members can legally ask questions and visit mosques without needing reasonable suspicion, Wedick said. "Unfortunately there are occasions when reasonable cause has been less than reasonable," he said, pointing to the case of a Lodi man and his son. They pleaded guilty to lesser charges after being accused of having connections to al-Qaida. The four-year investigation of the Central California city's large Muslim community began after a former Lodi resident gave erroneous information to FBI agents. No evidence surfaced of any al-Qaida connections. The FBI on Friday released a statement announcing that its agents plan to undergo training at a Los Angeles mosque to learn more about Muslim religion and culture. "The FBI is committed to ensuring that our personnel become more culturally fluent so that our investigations are more effective and respectful," the statement said. |
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jun 18 2006, 10:05 AM Post #2 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Get them out of both countries.. and now. Enough tolerance of people whose express desire is to destroy us. In my opinion this is not covered by freedom of speech. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| dolmansaxlil | Jun 18 2006, 01:25 PM Post #3 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
The Imam in Britain? Absolutely. But are you referring to ALL Muslims in Britain and the US? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The other question is where do you send them? Obviously recent immigrants are easy - ship them back to their homeland. But what about the Islamics who were born and raised in the USA? |
|
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jun 18 2006, 03:21 PM Post #4 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
You know what I meant and to whom I was referring. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 18 2006, 03:41 PM Post #5 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Any American -- moslem or not -- who calls for the assassination of political leaders, advocates violence, or seeks to violently disrupt the social order should be arrested and tried for sedition, and permanently jailed or exiled. (Is exile a valid option in the US? I remember watching "The Man Without a Country" in high school as a fictional accounting). |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| Dewey | Jun 18 2006, 04:24 PM Post #6 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Funny, I actually had a picture of the cover of that book, via amazon, inserted in a post responding to dol earlier, but then decided not to post it. |
|
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Jun 19 2006, 12:55 AM Post #7 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
I read that book in third or fourth grade. It made a huge impression on me. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 19 2006, 07:10 AM Post #8 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Exile. Whether internal or external it is a practice quite foreign to Western democracies. The Russian Tsars and their Soviet decendents used it often. Under the Tsars the constitutionalist Decembrists, anarchists, socialists of all stripes even some liberals were sent into some form of exile. Under Soviet rule, anyone could be exiled; Marxist revolutionaries, Nobel prize winning physicists and Russian chauvinist writers and eccentric satirists. Today, the exiles are usually billionaire purse snatchers who figured they could buy political power. To court the notion of exile as a penalty for dissent, illustrates what I have often considered a novel idea- Americans and Russians often disagree because they both share a common form of conservatism based on the exclusivity of their social and political culture. Too bad you can't get along- you share a lot in common with your Russian opposites. |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 19 2006, 08:42 AM Post #9 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
I would rather circumscribe who is vulnerable to exile -- those who actively seek to damage the social and political order through violence or calls to violence. I don't see how that shares a whole lot with the Russian experience. But I'd sooner just toss them in the Federal pen permanently and be done with it. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 19 2006, 09:08 AM Post #10 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Considering that Russian exiles in one way or another actively, but not necessarily violently, sought overturning the social and political order I would argue there is a shared precedent. Just examine the fate of the United Empire Loyalists following the American Colonial Revolt or more recently, perhaps, the blacklisted Hollywood writers and other victims of McCarthyism who were regarded as pariahs and left the country. |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |









4:49 PM Jul 10