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A New Direction for America; from the Democrats
Topic Started: Jun 18 2006, 06:09 AM (234 Views)
George K
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Finally
Press Release from Nancy Pelosi:

A NEW DIRECTION FOR AMERICA

Democrats offer a New Direction, putting the common good of all Americans first for a change and will:

Make Health Care More Affordable: Fix the prescription drug program by putting people ahead of drug companies and HMO’s, eliminating wasteful subsidies, negotiating lower drug prices and ensuring the program works for all seniors; invest in stem cell and other medical research.

Lower Gas Prices and Achieve Energy Independence: Crack down on price gouging; eliminate billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop American alternatives, including biofuels; promote energy efficient technology.

Help Working Families: Raise the minimum wage; repeal tax giveaways that encourage companies to move jobs overseas.

Cut College Costs: Make college tuition deductible from taxes; expand Pell grants and slash student loan costs.

Ensure Dignified Retirement: Prevent the privatization of Social Security; expand savings incentives; and ensure pension fairness.

Require Fiscal Responsibility: Restore the budget discipline of the 1990s that helped eliminate deficits and spur record economic growth.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Anyone see something missing?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Posted Image

What year was that press release issued?

a. 2006
b. 1996
c. 1986
d. 1976
d. 1966
e. 1956
f. 1946
g. All of the above, with equal lack of specificity

The really funny thing is that it's the Democrats who blame Republicans of being stuck in time, without recognizing current reality. :rolleyes2:
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Well.. there is that pesky national security thing.

I do think that 'program' is a lot of pie in the sky. But then, Pelosi has the 'crust' to serve it up. :rolleyes2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
What did they say? A Nude Erection for America?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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George K
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Finally
I liked the part about college tuition being deductible. I could have written $60K off last year!
Damn Republicans didn't think of that! :veryangry:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
JBryan
Jun 18 2006, 10:27 AM
What did they say? A Nude Erection for America?

Never mind:

Posted Image
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:31 AM
I liked the part about college tuition being deductible. I could have written $60K off last year!
Damn Republicans didn't think of that! :veryangry:

We should not have to "write anything off" in the first place.
___.___
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Quote:
 
Require Fiscal Responsibility: Restore the budget discipline of the 1990s that helped eliminate deficits and spur record economic growth.


Come up with some other sort of dot-com boom geeky stuff to spur record economic growth.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Make Health Care More Affordable:

Easy to say, but she didn't say how. Wonder if she realizes it is because of democrats health insurance is as high as it is?

Quote:
 
Lower Gas Prices and Achieve Energy Independence:

Nice little touchy feely comment. Meaningless.

Quote:
 
Help Working Families: Raise the minimum wage; repeal tax giveaways that encourage companies to move jobs overseas.

This is where the democrats become laughable. Raise the minimum wage??? To what? How much is enough? So the democrats want to price jobs out of existence? They really think the answer for the "working families" is to cause employers who provide minimum wage jobs to have to hire fewer people?

What idiots!

They really think raising the minimum wage won't cause the price of everything else to go up, making it harder for everyone else?

What morons!

Now, the *real* gem in this one - she wants to stop tax breaks for companies so they'll stop sending jobs overseas.....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!! Yeah, I just *know* the best way to convince businesses to come home is to tell them you're gonna tax them more!

What FREAKIN' lunatics!

Quote:
 
Cut College Costs: Make college tuition deductible from taxes; expand Pell grants and slash student loan costs.


Not a bad idea, but there's a better way to do this - fire all the brainless liberal ideologues teaching there who have absolutely no idea of what the real world is like and hire some balanced EDUCATORS.

Quote:
 
Ensure Dignified Retirement: Prevent the privatization of Social Security; expand savings incentives; and ensure pension fairness.

Right - can't allow the masses to have the same retirement benefits *they* get, can we?...... want to expand savings incentives, democrats?.....

GET YOUR HAND OUT OF OUR POCKETS!

Want to ensure pension fairness?

PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY, AND GET YOUR NOSE OUT OF OUR PRIVATE LIVES!

Quote:
 
Require Fiscal Responsibility: Restore the budget discipline of the 1990s that helped eliminate deficits and spur record economic growth.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

What budget discipline - the one forced onto Clinton by the Republican Congress? She wants to "spur record economic growth"??

TELL THE BITCH TO PULL HER HEAD OUT OF HER ASS!! She's STANDING in it!

If this is what the democrats intend to offer as a "plan" for taking back control of the government, the psychologists' offices are going to be stuffed full come December...... :D

This woman is typical of the democrat party leadership - delusional, out of touch, motivated purely by politics, and frankly, not very bright. The whole "plan" would be comical if it weren't for the sad realization that there are millions of mindless lemmings around the country that will look at the "plan" and say "hmmm.... makes sense to me. I don't have to think any further now"....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Th 1990's boom was so much more than that too.. it was when most people started putting money into 401s, IRAs, etc.. coupled with the effect of the tax cuts from the Reagan years. The last two times the Dems have handed over the presidency the economy has been headed down.. not up.

But.. in the interest of fairness, let's take a look at each plank of the 'Nude Erection' Nancy has for us: (JB.. that is TOO funny)

Democrats offer a New Direction, putting the common good of all Americans first for a change and will:

Make Health Care More Affordable: Fix the prescription drug program by putting people ahead of drug companies and HMO’s, eliminating wasteful subsidies, negotiating lower drug prices and ensuring the program works for all seniors; invest in stem cell and other medical research.


Just how does one go about that? Further cuts in healthcare personnel? Nurses are already bailing out because the job is just too difficult from cuts already made. I know doctors who wish they had studied something else. So... then there's drug companies, who may make what looks like a windfall profit on a given drug... but what tabout the 19 others that they put millions and millions of dollars into that went nowhere? That has to come out of the public pocket if we want more and better pharmaceuticals. HMOs? Might be some room for improvement there, I'd agree. But perhaps we need to go back to what health insurance was supposed to be in the first place.. to keep you from getting wiped out by a bad illness, rather than to pay your cradle to grave expenses. You wanna cut costs? Have people pay for their own doctor visits when they have the sniffles and you will see wasteful utilization go down.


Lower Gas Prices and Achieve Energy Independence: Crack down on price gouging; eliminate billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop American alternatives, including biofuels; promote energy efficient technology.

Like they did in the mid 70's, eh?

Help Working Families: Raise the minimum wage; repeal tax giveaways that encourage companies to move jobs overseas.

I'm not sure raising the minimum wage will do anything but attract more illegals. Tax breaks for moving jobs? Be careful how we tread here. Just as we need to keep an eye to retaining good jobs here, we also have a big interest in the rest of the world having a viable economy and an expanding middle class. Having them hooked on providing services to us is not a bad idea either, to a point.

Cut College Costs: Make college tuition deductible from taxes; expand Pell grants and slash student loan costs.

This from the party that said we can't afford to repeal inheritance taxes and the AMT? Can't afford Bush tax cuts? The problem here is that people who have worked to provide for their families but are by no means rich will not benefit from these tax cuts.. we'll be exempted. Why do I say this? Similar legislation was introduced in 2001 and 2003. Both had these provisions, and this will too. Then we'll be made to kick in more for Pell grants.

Ensure Dignified Retirement: Prevent the privatization of Social Security; expand savings incentives; and ensure pension fairness.

Delta just announced and agreement with their pilots union to scrap the pension plan. I do agree these things need to be protected. It is a covenant between employees and employers and should be a sacred trust. I agree with expanding saving incentives (can you say national sales tax?). Privatizing SS? It sounds good on paper.. but I'd have to see a lot more details.

Require Fiscal Responsibility: Restore the budget discipline of the 1990s that helped eliminate deficits and spur record economic growth.

Democratic budget disciplne had nothing to do with the surplusses of the 90's.

Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I'm sure a lot of this is poll data and focus group stuff.

The healthcare issue is a good one, especially given the aging baby boomers and the current problem of young people obtaining insurance...but I think what IS going to work is a combination MSA coupled with a catastrophic health insurance plan...the trick is going to be the ability to access that insurance, even after problems such as cancer or CVD.

Fiscal stuff? Another weak point for the GOP, but can they actually sell the Dems as the party of responsibility? Gonna be awful hard....

Those are the two best political points I think the Dems have...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
It's unusual for a political party not to mention that they're going to be 'tough on crime'.

I think that talking about The War on Terror(tm) is a difficult one for the Democrats, as they can't appear to be too soft, and alienate the middle ground, nor can they appear to hawkish, and alienate the left. Solution? Don't mention it, apparently. I was rather disappointed that Kerry never really addressed this issue last time round - there was lots of saluting, and all the rest of the pseudo militaristic BS, but he was always rather vague on specifics.

If I was going to run, I'd say:

1. I believe in peace, but will fight with every bone of my body to preserve the American way of life.

2. I'm going to close the gap between rich and poor.

3. Fiscal responsibility is to be the watch-word! We aim to lower taxes for all!

4. I'm going to be tough on crime, so we can once again walk the streets without fear.

5. No more exploitation by big business!

If that failed to attract popularity, I'd offer free beer to everyone who voted for me and start a rumour that my opponent was a child-molestor.

If the electorate were stupid enough to elect me, then they'd get what they deserved, just like always.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
So, you would run as a Republican?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Ms Polosi's agenda is all well and good, but right now it is meaningless as anything but a "run it up the pole and see if anyone salutes it" experiment..

The voters will not be listening closely enough to decide on their vote until after Labor Day. As long as the GOP continues its campaign to pander to the extreme right, it will continue to lose the independents. And as long as Bush continues the present policies in Iraq, Americans dissatisfaction with the war will stay high, if not increase.

In 1994, the election everyone seems to be seeing this year's as a parallel with, Newt Gingrish did not come out with the Contract on (oops!) with America until early October -- the second week, if I recall correctly. This gave it time to be sold to the American public but no time for it to be scrutinized before the Novemeber election.

Since the Democrats do not control the legislative agenda in Congress or the microphones with the press, it is too early for them to lay out specifics, especially about the war. The GOP can pull too many shenanigans if the Democrats move too agressively too early -- like the GOP did last week did with the meaningless debates and votes on the Bush's war.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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George K
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Finally
So by Pelosi's silence on the issue, we can safely assume that National Security is not an issue for the Democrats, right?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Rick Zimmer
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George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:31 AM
I liked the part about college tuition being deductible. I could have written $60K off last year!
Damn Republicans didn't think of that!  :veryangry:

It is a shame that you even have to think of that George. To me, the entire College financing process we now have is silly. I speak from experience. I have two sons who have been through it and one who is just entering it.

Under the current system, the group that is most hurt is the middle class. It should not be that way.

My proposal?

I see no reason for the states or the Feds to provide any sort of grants/scholarshps to anyone. Let the schools themselves use their endowments for that. However, we should do something similar to what used to be done.

The Feds should sell revenue bonds, specifically for educational loans. Any student should be able to take out a loan with an interest rate at .75 to 1 pt above the rate on the bonds -- the excess interest rate to pay for the administration of the program. Loan payments should start nine months after graduation or the student leaves full time studies. Then the payments would amortized over a period up to the life of the bonds (25-30 years), which will keep the payments manageable. Payments would be made through the individua'ls income tax. No prepayment penalities if the individual wants to pay it off early.

The amount of the loan would be determined annually and will be limited to tuition, fees, room and board (if needed), books, supplies and some extra for miscellaneous. (This is how the amoiunt of aid a student is eligible is done now)

I see no reason for means testing. The loans would be available to all income groups in the same way and under the same conditions.

If a student's family wants to cover all or part of the cost or if the student wants to work to reduce the amount the loan, then they can do that. Or the student can live at home and go to a local school and not have to pay room and board, one of the major costs of college.

I do not think that any one who seeks education after high school -- be it academically oriented or vocationally oriented -- should have to worry about finincing the education. All should be able to get the money they need easily and at a tax exempt interest rate. I believe it is to the society's benefit to do this.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Rick Zimmer
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George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:07 PM
So by Pelosi's silence on the issue, we can safely assume that National Security is not an issue for the Democrats, right?

No.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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George K
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Finally
Rick Zimmer
Jun 18 2006, 10:21 PM
George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:31 AM
I liked the part about college tuition being deductible. I could have written $60K off last year!
Damn Republicans didn't think of that!  :veryangry:

It is a shame that you even have to think of that George. To me, the entire College financing process we now have is silly. The group that is most hurt by the current system is the middle class. It should not be that way.

My comment was intended to be sarcastic.

(brief hijack)

However, your comments about college financing are interesting. With 4 kids, I cannot afford post-graduate education for all of them. All four will, however, have their undergrad education covered. I was at dinner with daughter #2 (who just graduated) and she asked if my parents paid for medical school for me.

I told her, yes, and got that raised eyebrow look.

Then I told her that when I went to school, tuition was $625 a quarter - at a private medical school in the Midwest. The eyebrow fell.

If I pay $8000 for board at a university for 8 months - plus a meal plan, why is it that I can rent an apartment cheaper - for the whole year? Does it really cost $25000 to teach a kid for a year?

(back to your thread, my apologies)
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Rick Zimmer
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George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:29 PM
Rick Zimmer
Jun 18 2006, 10:21 PM
George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:31 AM
I liked the part about college tuition being deductible. I could have written $60K off last year!
Damn Republicans didn't think of that!  :veryangry:

It is a shame that you even have to think of that George. To me, the entire College financing process we now have is silly. The group that is most hurt by the current system is the middle class. It should not be that way.

My comment was intended to be sarcastic.

(brief hijack)

However, your comments about college financing are interesting. With 4 kids, I cannot afford post-graduate education for all of them. All four will, however, have their undergrad education covered. I was at dinner with daughter #2 (who just graduated) and she asked if my parents paid for medical school for me.

I told her, yes, and got that raised eyebrow look.

Then I told her that when I went to school, tuition was $625 a quarter - at a private medical school in the Midwest. The eyebrow fell.

If I pay $8000 for board at a university for 8 months - plus a meal plan, why is it that I can rent an apartment cheaper - for the whole year? Does it really cost $25000 to teach a kid for a year?

(back to your thread, my apologies)

(Continuing the hijack... :wink: )

I have not paid for any of our sons college expenses -- directly. We told each of them they could go to any college they wanted to if they found a way to pay for it.

I saw no reason for me to have to pay for it. I have already done so through my taxes in California. With the exception of some highly competitive fields (medical school being one) I don't believe it matters much where a person gets a Bachelor's Degree. In California, a resident can attend a Cal State for under $4,000 a year and a UC for about $7,000. Thus, a student can live at home and if they make between $350 and $600 a month (possible working part time) they can pay the cost of their education.

However, as I pointed out to each of my sons, if they chose a non-California state funded university and wanted to live away from home, that was their choice. I felt no obligation to cover the cost.

So, they got grants, scholarships and student loans up to the amount the Feds allowed. I then took out the Federal PLUS loan to cover the extra. While I have to pay on those PLUS loans, they each know that when they are out of school, the responsibility for payment is theirs. (A risk on my part, since they remain in my name).

So, I helped them but the actual cost of their education is theirs.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Rick Zimmer
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George K
Jun 18 2006, 07:29 PM
If I pay $8000 for board at a university for 8 months - plus a meal plan, why is it that I can rent an apartment cheaper - for the whole year? Does it really cost $25000 to teach a kid for a year?


Look at it this way George....

The typical private college/university runs about $32,000 a year, everything included. if you take off $8,000 for the room, another $2,500 for their food and about $5,000 for books, fees, supplies and incidentals, the actual cost fore the education is $16,500.

Assume the student is taking 16 units (16 hours in the classroom a week) for a 16 week semester, they are in the classroom (direct education) for 256 hours a semester or 512 hours a year. This comes out to a direct hourly cost of $32 per hour. And this does not cover any of the other services the university provides for educational services not provided during the class period, such as the library, computer labs, academic and professional counseling, etc.

Given what most of us pay per hour for professional services or work done by a tradesman, $32 an hour (with a bunch of extras thrown in) is really not too bad a price.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Rick Zimmer
Jun 18 2006, 10:05 PM
Ms Polosi's agenda is all well and good, but right now it is meaningless as anything but a "run it up the pole and see if anyone salutes it" experiment..


I did hear them right.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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apple
one of the angels
(tho married, Nancy is a spinster) :smile:
it behooves me to behold
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Jun 18 2006, 10:17 PM
So, you would run as a Republican?

Does it make any difference?

I would choose which party to run for based on the pervading political climate. If more people liked the Republicans, I would choose them, if more were looking over to the Dems, I would volunteer my services on their behalf. I would choose the same campaign slogans and 'policies' either way.

John D'Oh, for a fairer, safer, richer America. John D'Oh is tough on child-molestors, even those who are in positions of power!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rick Zimmer
Jun 18 2006, 11:21 PM
My proposal?

I see no reason for the states or the Feds to provide any sort of grants/scholarshps to anyone. Let the schools themselves use their endowments for that. However, we should do something similar to what used to be done.

The Feds should sell revenue bonds, specifically for educational loans. Any student should be able to take out a loan with an interest rate at .75 to 1 pt above the rate on the bonds -- the excess interest rate to pay for the administration of the program. Loan payments should start nine months after graduation or the student leaves full time studies. Then the payments would amortized over a period up to the life of the bonds (25-30 years), which will keep the payments manageable. Payments would be made through the individua'ls income tax. No prepayment penalities if the individual wants to pay it off early.

The amount of the loan would be determined annually and will be limited to tuition, fees, room and board (if needed), books, supplies and some extra for miscellaneous. (This is how the amoiunt of aid a student is eligible is done now)

I see no reason for means testing. The loans would be available to all income groups in the same way and under the same conditions.

If a student's family wants to cover all or part of the cost or if the student wants to work to reduce the amount the loan, then they can do that. Or the student can live at home and go to a local school and not have to pay room and board, one of the major costs of college.

I do not think that any one who seeks education after high school -- be it academically oriented or vocationally oriented -- should have to worry about finincing the education. All should be able to get the money they need easily and at a tax exempt interest rate. I believe it is to the society's benefit to do this.

Hmmm.... I like that idea. Let the market decide how much it wants to invest in education. If t he market wants to price out the "education bond," so be it. :)

Though there's still no solution for those who would become a perpetual student just to avoid loan repayment. :( May be the loan program can enforce a "take a break" clause -- for every 4 years of loan you take out, you'd be deemed ineligible for more loans for the next 3 years, after which you can apply for loans under that program again.
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