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| Anti-gay violence | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2006, 04:28 AM (1,200 Views) | |
| Rick Zimmer | Jun 16 2006, 09:59 AM Post #51 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Wow! |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Matt G. | Jun 16 2006, 10:06 AM Post #52 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Speaking of painting, the hallway needs a fresh coat, since your brush is far, far wider than mine. I have seen anti-gay violence and intimidation up close. It is a real problem, far more common off the rural route than some are capable of imagining, and there IS significant targeting of gay people. If I get indignant about callous disregard for what really happens, you can chalk that up to my believing that nobody should be targeted for violence or intimidation just because of their sexual preference. If that's an agenda, sign me up! |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 16 2006, 10:07 AM Post #53 |
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MAMIL
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So we don't need to worry when a gay man is beaten to death, but when a few 10 year-old schoolboys give someone a bit of a slap it's THE END OF CIVILISATION AS WE KNOW IT. Since gay marriage has been made legal in the UK, there's no need for a gay agenda anymore, which should put a stop to the reporting of this kind of murder, which I'm sure will be a great relief to all of us. Like they say, no news is good news. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 16 2006, 10:12 AM Post #54 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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You are obviously a legal positivist. A citizen has a moral obligation to uphold the laws of the land, provided that they are lawfully enacted and do not contravene human reason (such as turning in your neighbor to the authorities for being Jewish). So, with that in mind, give me an example of a case where it is not morally wrong to commit a crime. The begger stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family? It is still morally wrong but the culpability is diminished. In case you missed it, I disallow the notion of hate crime per se. Hate itself is not morally wrong. Apart from Christian notions of forgiveness, turning the other cheek, loving your enemy, etc, hate is a natural response (a passion, or a movement of the sense appetite) toward a perceived evil. We intrinsically hate bankruptcy or starvation or threats to our wellbeing or injustices. The question of "hate" as a modifier for criminal behavior, if one is being consistent, ought to be like any other "crime of passion" -- and serve to mitigate culpability instead of exacerbate culpability. My disagreement with you about "hate" is that it is bad thinking to ascribe hate as a modifier to crime since it is entirely unnecessary. All crime is wrong -- whether legally or morally. That is all that needs to be said. Beyond that you are talking politics, not morality and not jurisprudence. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Jolly | Jun 16 2006, 10:12 AM Post #55 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Broad brush? No. Broad view? Yes. I've not denied that gays can be singled out for violence and criminal acts - it happens. But it happens a lot more to women, to the elderly, to children. Perspective. Take care of bigger problems first. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Jun 16 2006, 10:22 AM Post #56 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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A young man was beaten to death. Truly sad and regrettable. But there were 1,184,702 violent crimes in Britian that year, and 14.6% of all males 16-24 were victims! Do you think every one of those young men are gay? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Matt G. | Jun 16 2006, 10:22 AM Post #57 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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When was the last time someone was beaten to death because she was a woman? Are people being threatened and intimidated because they are elderly? Is there a ministry out there with the catchphrase of "God Hates Kids"? Get real. |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 16 2006, 10:23 AM Post #58 |
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MAMIL
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How many schoolboys do you suppose got smacked around a bit in Massachusetts last year? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 16 2006, 10:27 AM Post #59 |
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Women, children, white men, black men....there's far more hate-violence directed at these groups than gays, but like I said before any crimes based on hate are wrong. |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 16 2006, 10:29 AM Post #60 |
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Going back to what Ivory and Jolly mention...WHO CARES if the victim was gay. A violent crime is a violent crime. PERIOD. |
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| Jolly | Jun 16 2006, 10:31 AM Post #61 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Quite a few, I would imagine. I take it you therefore condone some being beaten under some conditions, but not others? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Jun 16 2006, 10:33 AM Post #62 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Women are beaten to death with the regularity of clockwork all around the world. Elderly people are abused by the multitudes every day. You deny these things happen more to these groups, than others? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 16 2006, 10:35 AM Post #63 |
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MAMIL
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Of course not. Why the big fuss over the one guy in yesterday's thread, though? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 16 2006, 10:36 AM Post #64 |
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MAMIL
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The two men who beat him to death did. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Jun 16 2006, 10:36 AM Post #65 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Then maybe we hang him twice. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 16 2006, 10:37 AM Post #66 |
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And? EDIT: How does that affect the result or punishment of the crime? |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 16 2006, 10:39 AM Post #67 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I may be a young whippersnapper, but I can admit that BOTH sides are not always tolerant and dress up arguements to get whatever they want. It's politics, bub. Not just the Left. (I like the sequin gown analogy, btw) |
| And how are you today? | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 16 2006, 10:42 AM Post #68 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Since murder is already a capital offence, maybe what John is really getting at is reinstituting cruel and unusual punishment for certain privileged classes of crimes.
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 16 2006, 10:43 AM Post #69 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Good idea. I agree. BUT...(duhm duhm DUHM!)....why not stop the "small" things before they get to be big? Or try to, at least. Nip it in the bud, so to say. |
| And how are you today? | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 16 2006, 10:45 AM Post #70 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Probably a few hours or minutes ago. |
| And how are you today? | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 16 2006, 10:45 AM Post #71 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Perhaps, but at least the Right is not hypocritical about it. They are happy to state that they are intolerant of certain things, and don't hide behind the thin veneer of "tolerance" while encouraging their kids to go beat up the children of those who disagree with them.
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 16 2006, 10:50 AM Post #72 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh no. The Right is hypocritical too. That's my point. Both are just as bad as eachother. That's all there is to it. And what if the parents of the bully kids just happened to be Republicans? It can happen. OMG! A GAY REPUBLICAN! NEVER! |
| And how are you today? | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 16 2006, 10:53 AM Post #73 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Where do you hear of the Right espousing tolerance and then being intolerant? They might be hypocritical about other things (lowering taxes, etc), but what do you have in mind? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 16 2006, 10:59 AM Post #74 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Just that BOTH are hypocritical, and these 'The Left is bad because it's hypocritcal' "arguements" are pointless, as are "The Right is bad because it's led by Bush" or similar. :rolleyes: |
| And how are you today? | |
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| Matt G. | Jun 16 2006, 11:00 AM Post #75 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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In the sense of "Let's go out and kick some woman's ass!" "Yeah, f***in' women deserve to die!"? Really? Heck, I've been invited to "go kick some faggot ass" more times than care to recall. |
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