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Anti-gay violence
Topic Started: Jun 16 2006, 04:28 AM (1,199 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I apologise for posting yet another gay thread, but it's worth remembering that this kind of thing goes on everywhere when looking at stories such as the recent one in the Massachusetts school.

1306 British homophobic crimes reported in a year is not a very happy statistic. Think of all the crimes that weren't reported.

Gay killing 'tip of the iceberg;

Quote:
 
Two men have been jailed for life for the horrific killing of barman Jody Dobrowski on Clapham Common in south London in October 2005. It comes as a grim reminder to an increasingly confident gay community that the threat of homophobic violence remains one they cannot afford to ignore.

Mr Dobrowski, 24, was killed on Clapham Common 
The 24-year-old, originally from Gloucestershire, was targeted at the well-known gay "cruising" spot for no other reason than his sexuality.

The attack was shocking in its violence, leaving Jody's body so badly battered he had to be identified by his fingerprints.

Jody's killing was one of 1,306 homophobic crimes reported to police in London last year - and one of a string of attacks on Clapham Common.


In September 2005 a gay man survived after being garrotted with a piece of wire by an attacker on the common. Two weeks later another man was beaten unconscious.

Five months after Jody's murder yet another violent attack in the same area left a gay man with severe facial injuries and a broken leg.

The problem is by no means confined to the capital.

In July 2005 a 52-year-old man suffered facial injuries after he was kicked to the ground in Southampton.

In December a gay priest, the Most Reverend Dr Barry Rathbone, was attacked with a metal baseball bat in a Bournemouth park. His attacker was later jailed for two years.

There has also been a series of violent attacks in Londonderry.

But these incidents were probably just the tip of the iceberg, say both the police and gay campaigners.

  As many lesbians and gay men feel more comfortable about their sexuality, their increased visibility makes them vulnerable to being targeted by gay-bashing gangs

Peter Tatchell
While being homosexual no longer attracts the sort of stigma it did 20 years ago, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people are still frequently the victims of hate crime, be it gay-bashings in public places or abuse in their homes by relatives or colleagues.

Gay human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell says: "As many lesbians and gay men feel more comfortable about their sexuality, their increased visibility makes them vulnerable to being targeted by gay-bashing gangs.

"Increasingly, gay and lesbian people want to be able to lead a free and relaxed life, without having to look over their shoulders in fear of homophobic abuse and attack. Sadly that isn't always possible."



Even in openly gay communities, such as Canal Street in Manchester, or Old Compton Street in London, attacks take place - sometimes by gangs who go there deliberately to seek out victims.

Holding hands 'inadvisable'

In some areas Mr Tatchell says the risk of attack means it is still not advisable to be openly gay.

"Many gay people are still fearful of their safety on some white working class council estates and in some sections of the black and Muslim communities there are pockets of extreme prejudice.

"This can make it quite unsafe for someone to be known to be lesbian or gay and extremely unsafe for them to hold hands with their partner or give them a kiss goodbye at the bus stop."

Mr Tatchell says the typical attacker is young, poorly educated and unemployed, with their motivation stemming either from their religious background or from insecurity and fear about their own sexuality.


In some cases, however, gays and lesbians may be targeted simply because they are seen as easy victims.

Police say assaults are as likely to be carried out by opportunistic attackers as by gangs of organised homophobes.

In many cases the homophobic element appears incidental to attacks rather than the sole motivation behind them.

Gay men attacked in places such as parks and public toilets, for example, may not be "out" to their family and friends and are unlikely to go to the police for fear of exposure.

The frequency of homophobic attacks is hard to quantify, as police forces are not obliged to compile figures.

A 1999 study by the National Advisory Group found 66% of 2,500 respondents had been a victim of a homophobic incident.

One thing police and campaigners agree on is that attacks remain hugely under-reported - one estimate puts victims coming forward at fewer than one in five.

The traditional mistrust of police by the gay community is proving hard to shake off.

Many fear they will not be taken seriously or treated sympathetically if they report an attack. Others fear having their sexuality exposed.

Even attacks which are reported are notoriously hard to prosecute, partly because of the reluctance of victims to testify in court and of witnesses to come forward.

Between April 2004 an March 2005, the Crown Prosecution Service prosecuted 317 cases identified as having a homophobic element, with a conviction rate of 71%.

Attitude change

But 25% of cases were discontinued because the victim refused to give evidence, retracted it, or failed to attend court.

Both the police and the CPS have been making a concerted effort to improve conviction rates and help witnesses give evidence in court.

The CPS has appointed dedicated homophobic crime co-ordinator to make lawyers aware of the sensitivities involved and ways to make things easier - such as allowing witnesses to testify from behind a screen and reassuring the gay community.

New rules mean judges must impose an extra sentence tariff in cases with a proven homophobic element.


Police are also working closely with the gay community to encourage more victims to come forward.

In London assaults can be reported using a third party system via LGBT community safety charity Galop. Other forces run initiatives such as reporting helplines.


Martin Powell was jailed for beating a gay priest with a baseball bat in Bournemouth
Galop's director, Tor Doherty, said the system was helping to break down the barrier between the community and police.

Gay victims of crime are generally treated with far more sensitivity than they were in the past.

But she said there was still a long way to go before the message has trickled down to every police officer.

Ms Doherty told the BBC News website: "The police need to realise when a community's confidence is at stake an assault in the street is actually an attack on a whole community and it's really important to take it seriously."

The Dobrowski case has been a success story, with the efforts of police and prosecutors resulting in the attackers being jailed less than 10 months after the murder.

But there is still a long way to go in ending the scourge of violent homophobia.

What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
And what was the rate of non-homsexual violence?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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Jolly
Jun 16 2006, 09:29 AM
And what was the rate of non-homsexual violence?

What, you mean gays beating up heterosexuals because of their sexual preference?
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Jolly
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No, crime rate in general.

I can take 6 months of crime statistics from any state, highlight some of the data and not all, and make things appear as they are not.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
But homosexual crime singles someone out simply because they are gay. Most crimes that occur don't single out a group of people like that. 1306 anti-gay crimes is 1306 too many. Simple as that. But, then, any crime in the world is another that is unnecessary.
And how are you today?
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John Jacob Jingoism Smith
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Jolly,

While it is certainly true that statistics can be misused, misconstrued or otherwise misunderstood, what is your point in bringing that up in this subject? Are you implying that homophobic attacks don't actually happen very often, or that we should ignore any statistics given on the subject and just let it slide, or what?

Sincerely,

JJJS
Jingoism

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
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Rick Zimmer
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Jolly
Jun 16 2006, 05:54 AM
No, crime rate in general.

I can take 6 months of crime statistics from any state, highlight some of the data and not all, and make things appear as they are not.

Why are you making this a debate about crime statistics, Jolly?

Isn't you immediate reaction, implying that John is trying to make a problem look worse than it is, a bit disengenuous? Especially after posting about only one instance about violence against a child because the parents opposed teaching acceptance of gays.

John's point is obviously one we all know is the case -- there are hundreds if not thousands of attacks on gays for just being gay each year.

Or do you dispute that violence against gays simply because of their sexuality is a too frequent occurence?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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John D'Oh
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Jolly
Jun 16 2006, 09:54 AM
No, crime rate in general.

I can take 6 months of crime statistics from any state, highlight some of the data and not all, and make things appear as they are not.

Yes, you can. But there's different types of crime. My point in posting this was to demonstrate that in the UK at least, anti-gay hatred is a serious issue. The exact numbers are actually irrelevant. One person murdered solely because they happen to be attracted to members of the opposite sex is one too many.

I'm just pulling this out of my a$s, but I'm pretty sure that a lot more people get beaten up for being gay than are beaten up for being straight.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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The 89th Key
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If you're pulling it out of your a$s, then I think you're biased. :leaving:
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John D'Oh
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As a follow up, if we want to talk about crime in general, the next time someone posts something about some muslim extremist doing something stupid, I'll point out that there's lots of general crime going on, so muslim extremism isn't a problem at all, right?
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 07:03 AM
If you're pulling it out of your a$s, then I think you're biased. :leaving:

:spit:

:leaving:
And how are you today?
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The 89th Key
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John, your post was interesting, I think Jolly is just trying to point out...for example as I'm thinking about it....that the number of crimes against people because they are white, or black, etc...are probably 20x that because of sexual preference.
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John D'Oh
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The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 11:07 AM
John, your post was interesting, I think Jolly is just trying to point out...for example as I'm thinking about it....that the number of crimes against people because they are white, or black, etc...are probably 20x that because of sexual preference.

So does that mean there's no homophobia problem?
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The 89th Key
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How did you infer that?
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phykell
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Coincidentally I'd just read the BBC article on this disgusting crime and the statistics are shocking on their own. Sorry Jolly and 89th, but considering the statistics for "racial violence" or the frankly irrelevant metrics for "non-homosexual violence" doesn't diminish the seriousness of the crime in question and nor does it diminish the UK's shameful statistics on this type of crime.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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John D'Oh
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Quote:
 

How did you infer that?


I didn't, I just asked a question.
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Rick Zimmer
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The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 07:07 AM
John, your post was interesting, I think Jolly is just trying to point out...for example as I'm thinking about it....that the number of crimes against people because they are white, or black, etc...are probably 20x that because of sexual preference.

That could well be. And the amount of violence against children whose parents oppose teaching tolerance towards gay in children is virtually statistically negligible -- but Jolly found it worthwhile enough to start and entire thread about one instance he found.

The question I and others have raised, Isaac, is why he started that thread and then suddenly jumps on John for starting this one by wanting to argue (or implying he wants to argue) how many gay bashings there really are.

This is really a question for Jolly -- at least on my part. I want to understand his motivation for apparently wanting to minimize the amount of anti-gay violence, in light of his other thread.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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The 89th Key
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John D'Oh
Jun 16 2006, 11:20 AM
Quote:
 

How did you infer that?


I didn't, I just asked a question.

So, you think homophobic crimes are ok?

(Hey, I'm just asking a question) ;)

Seriously though, I'll answer your question: No.
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The 89th Key
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Every hate crime is wrong.
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FrankM
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I think Jolly's point is violence and bigotry are endemic to our species. That is, many people "naturally" act or react violently against those that offend them in some way. Further, people often act or react negatively to those who offend them just because they're perceived to be different than the "norm." And so often the "negative" action/reaction triggered by bigotry is a violent one.

So why then single out violent antigay behavior? Are peoples' bigotry and violence towards gays different in some notable way from that towards those subjectively "abnormal" in other ways, such as racially?

I don't think so. For example, claiming a difference due to the all-too-familiar religious basis for being anti-gay misses the underlying historical reason for the religious proscription: once again, natural bigotry against that which is "abnormal." Recall that many of the people in the US who are anti-gay come from the same culture that once officially proscribed racial intermarriage based on religious grounds.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 08:51 AM
Every hate crime is wrong.

Wrong, 89th. Every hate crime is wrong.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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ivorythumper
Jun 16 2006, 12:08 PM
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 08:51 AM
Every hate crime is wrong.

Wrong, 89th. Every hate crime is wrong.

[Annoying pedant mode]

Not necessarily. Every crime is against the law. :wink:

Some people claim that any number of things which are legal are also wrong.

[/Annoying pedant mode]
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Jun 16 2006, 09:12 AM
ivorythumper
Jun 16 2006, 12:08 PM
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 08:51 AM
Every hate crime is wrong.

Wrong, 89th. Every hate crime is wrong.

[Annoying pedant mode]

Not necessarily. Every crime is against the law. :wink:

Some people claim that any number of things which are legal are also wrong.

[/Annoying pedant mode]

[annoying pedant stomper mode] You have not disproven my statement -- all you have argued is that there are ALSO things that are not crimes that are also wrong.[/annoying pedant stomper mode]
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jun 16 2006, 08:12 AM
ivorythumper
Jun 16 2006, 12:08 PM
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2006, 08:51 AM
Every hate crime is wrong.

Wrong, 89th. Every hate crime is wrong.

[Annoying pedant mode]

Not necessarily. Every crime is against the law. :wink:

Some people claim that any number of things which are legal are also wrong.

[/Annoying pedant mode]

[more pedanticly annoying than John Mode]

Saying that legal things can also be wrong does not negate the idea that all illegal things are wrong.

I might take more issue with the idea that all crimes are wrong actually. The commision of a crime is always wrong, but some acts listed in our legal code as criminal I would argue are not "wrong", not in the moral sense anyway.

[/more pedanticly annoying than John Mode]
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phykell
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FrankM
Jun 16 2006, 03:53 PM
So why then single out violent antigay behavior? Are peoples' bigotry and violence towards gays different in some notable way from that towards those subjectively "abnormal" in other ways, such as racially?

The reason it's worth singling out is the approach of "divide and conquer". If we wrapped up all crime into one neat little package, a black box if you will, it would be unassailable. Conversely if we examine all types of crime in-depth we might find some can be explained, understood, dealt with and perhaps even prevented. It serves little or no practical purpose to lump anti-gay crime or racial crime, or any other crime for that matter, in with the rest of crime as a whole.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated. - Ghandhi

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

Remember, bones heal and chicks dig scars
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