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One Vote
Topic Started: Jun 15 2006, 12:31 PM (1,045 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag-burning_amendment

Sources tell me that the heads have been counted, and the amendment may fall one vote short, or not, in the Senate. It is very, very close.

Rick could soon have a new consitutional amendment to bemoan....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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The 89th Key
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When protesting, instead of burning the flag....wash it.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 02:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.

I could be more pragmatic.

How 'bout an agreement that if a person burns the Stars & Stripes in protest, that whatever happens, happens, and is not subject to prosecution.

There would be very, very few flags burnt in this concealed carry state. :whistle:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
Jun 15 2006, 05:07 PM
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 02:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.

I could be more pragmatic.

How 'bout an agreement that if a person burns the Stars & Stripes in protest, that whatever happens, happens, and is not subject to prosecution.

There would be very, very few flags burnt in this concealed carry state. :whistle:

I don't really understand all the hooplah. Burning a flag is a very silly thing to do, and doesn't really demonstrate a great deal of intelligence, or ability for independent thought. It actually completely undermines any message that the person is trying to make by making it obvious that they're a moron. At the end of the day, though, it's only a flag. It's not like they shot my dog or anything.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 03:12 PM
Jolly
Jun 15 2006, 05:07 PM
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 02:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.

I could be more pragmatic.

How 'bout an agreement that if a person burns the Stars & Stripes in protest, that whatever happens, happens, and is not subject to prosecution.

There would be very, very few flags burnt in this concealed carry state. :whistle:

I don't really understand all the hooplah. Burning a flag is a very silly thing to do, and doesn't really demonstrate a great deal of intelligence, or ability for independent thought. It actually completely undermines any message that the person is trying to make by making it obvious that they're a moron. At the end of the day, though, it's only a flag. It's not like they shot my dog or anything.

No, if you shot my dog I'd tie you upside down from a barn joist and pour concrete down your nether regions, just before I burnt your house down and shot your family as they ran from the flames. ;)

Nah...but I do like my dog....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Might be just me, but it seems like they would have more important things to discuss in the Senate than this issue.
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OperaTenor
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Steve Miller
Jun 15 2006, 01:28 PM
Might be just me, but it seems like they would have more important things to discuss in the Senate than this issue.

I agree with Steve. After all, how many flags have been burned in this country in the last 1/5/10 years?

I find flag burning stupid and morally repugnant, but I feel the same way about Nazi and KKK protest marches. Shall we enact a constitutional amendment against those too?


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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Steve Miller
Jun 15 2006, 03:28 PM
Might be just me, but it seems like they would have more important things to discuss in the Senate than this issue.

Well, they did vote 90+ today to stay in Iraq...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 12:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?


No.

I love the flag, and what it represents. I can't sing the National Anthem without getting a lump in my throat, if not a tear in my eye. I hate to see anyone burn a flag. I think it shows the person to be one of the lowest forms of bottom-dweller on the planet.

But this does not justify a constitutional amendment. Beyond the fact that it's too minor an issue to be codified by amending the Constitution, I look at it another way. In the spirt of the old saying, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer," if you're such a piece of scum that you feel burning the flag is justified, you should have every legal means of identifying yourself as such to me. I won't forget it.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

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Steve Miller
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Jolly
Jun 15 2006, 02:34 PM
Well, they did vote 90+ today to stay in Iraq...

They don't have much of a choice.

At $8 Billion a month however, I do hope someone is thinking about wrapping it up fairly quickly.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
OperaTenor
Jun 15 2006, 05:33 PM
Steve Miller
Jun 15 2006, 01:28 PM
Might be just me, but it seems like they would have more important things to discuss in the Senate than this issue.

I agree with Steve. After all, how many flags have been burned in this country in the last 1/5/10 years?

I find flag burning stupid and morally repugnant, but I feel the same way about Nazi and KKK protest marches. Shall we enact a constitutional amendment against those too?

It's more grandstanding BS, with people showing how patriotic they are in order to try and gain popularity by acheiving absolutely nothing. Much the same as the last failed amendment.

They'd be better off making wasting the tax payers money un-constitutional.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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The 89th Key
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Dewey
Jun 15 2006, 05:42 PM
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 12:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?


No.

I love the flag, and what it represents. I can't sing the National Anthem without getting a lump in my throat, if not a tear in my eye. I hate to see anyone burn a flag. I think it shows the person to be one of the lowest forms of bottom-dweller on the planet.

But this does not justify a constitutional amendment. Beyond the fact that it's too minor an issue to be codified by amending the Constitution, I look at it another way. In the spirt of the old saying, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer," if you're such a piece of scum that you feel burning the flag is justified, you should have every legal means of identifying yourself as such to me. I won't forget it.

I do support the right to burn a flag, let alone oppose a constitutional ammendment against it!

There's a reason why we left Britain - specifically the enforcement against protesting your government through silent and symbolic means.
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Steve Miller
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The 89th Key
Jun 15 2006, 03:29 PM
I do support the right to burn a flag, let alone oppose a constitutional ammendment against it!


Very Progressive of you, 89.

Best to keep it to yourself at NASCAR events however, 'lest you find Jolly cementing up your nether regions.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 01:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.

John: Very different cultural expectations. I've heard of stories of transfers between US and British warships in WW1 where greasy parts were wrapped in an old Union Jack, and the American crew was scandalized. You don't get it, but we think you're all a bit daft for your royalty protocols....

(And they're NOT your tax dollars) :wink:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Jun 15 2006, 06:55 PM

John: Very different cultural expectations. I've heard of stories of transfers between US and British warships in WW1 where greasy parts were wrapped in an old Union Jack, and the American crew was scandalized. You don't get it, but we think you're all a bit daft for your royalty protocols....

Yes, I realise that. I reckon the Americans would have been even more surprised if we'd set fire to King George though.

What you need is a proper head of state. None of this elected nonsense. Get someone with a decent family tree, rather than a family Bush.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
As Scott Reed, Bob Dole's campaign manager from 1996, said when asked about the GOP election strategy...

"If you're a gay who likes to burn flags, its going to be a long year"

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Jun 15 2006, 04:07 PM
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 02:46 PM
Does this really need a constitutional amendment?

Would Union Jack toilet paper be considered insulting over here? What about that picture that George posted the other day with the English flag underpants? What a load of old bollocks.

It's nice to see my tax dollars being used so wisely by this 'conservative' government.

I could be more pragmatic.

How 'bout an agreement that if a person burns the Stars & Stripes in protest, that whatever happens, happens, and is not subject to prosecution.

There would be very, very few flags burnt in this concealed carry state. :whistle:

Of course, if the person burning the flag (who would be ready for action, because he knows what he's about to do) is carrying concealed too, we could have a shoot-out at the OK Corral. And if he happens to gun down someone who is shooting at him, we wouldn't want the flag-burner prosecuted either, right?

And if an innocent bystander happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and get hit in the crossfire, "whatever happens, happens, and is not subject to prosecution", right?

Utter silliness.

Personally, I don't worry about protecting flag-burning as a method of protest. There are plenty of other ways of protesting, and there's no real need to burn the flag, which is a method of protest designed to fan the flames of emotion. But it seems like a massive overreaction to make a Constitutional amendment out of it. Constitutional amendments should be reserved for important stuff. This just doesn't rise to that level, imho.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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OperaTenor
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Unless someone knows of a more recent incident, the last time an American flag was burned in this country was in 1989, by an individual by the name of Gregory Johnson.

17 years ago. Sheesh.



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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Hell, let's give it the benefit of the doubt, and assume it happens ten times a year.

Is it worth a Constitutional amendment?

Nope.

Personally, I think we should have a Constitutional amendment to require people to use "its" and "it's" properly. It's an epidemic, people!
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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The 89th Key
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OT, I would have assumed it happens multiple times a year at least....just my guess though.
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OperaTenor
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The 89th Key
Jun 15 2006, 05:09 PM
OT, I would have assumed it happens multiple times a year at least....just my guess though.

I did, too. I haven't spent hours searching, but the one I cited was the only thing that came up googling "u.s. flag burning":

If it's happening more frequently, it's not making any kind of news, seemingly.

If there's more evidence to support the time and tax money expenditure, I'd be interested to see it.



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JBryan
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I am the grey one
John D'Oh
Jun 15 2006, 05:58 PM
ivorythumper
Jun 15 2006, 06:55 PM

John:  Very different cultural expectations. I've heard of stories of transfers between US and British warships in WW1 where greasy parts were wrapped in an old Union Jack, and the American crew was scandalized. You don't get it, but we think you're all a bit daft for  your royalty protocols....

Yes, I realise that. I reckon the Americans would have been even more surprised if we'd set fire to King George though.

What you need is a proper head of state. None of this elected nonsense. Get someone with a decent family tree, rather than a family Bush.

ROTFLMAO!
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Very Progressive of you, 89.


Why would that be "progressive", and why do you place such importance on the term that you felt the need to capitalize the word "progressive"? Get the flag issue out of the way - I think it's a dumb idea too. In fact, I can see a set of circumstances where I might very well burn one myself. I'm just interested in your view of what "progressive" means. Since you capitalized it, do you use the word here in the "liberal means progress, conservative means backward neandethals? Or do you really know what a Progressive is, and consider yourself aligned with them?
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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The 89th Key
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OperaTenor
Jun 15 2006, 09:35 PM
The 89th Key
Jun 15 2006, 05:09 PM
OT, I would have assumed it happens multiple times a year at least....just my guess though.

I did, too. I haven't spent hours searching, but the one I cited was the only thing that came up googling "u.s. flag burning":

If it's happening more frequently, it's not making any kind of news, seemingly.

If there's more evidence to support the time and tax money expenditure, I'd be interested to see it.

Here's some info I found:

http://www.esquilax.com/flag/faq.shtml

So. . is flag burning legal or not?

Kind of. Here's how I understand it (remember, I'm not a lawyer. If you're in prison right now, and relying on this page to get you out, I highly suggest contacting someone more qualified than I am)

Most states have laws against flag burning. But Texas V Johnson (a 1989 Supreme Court decision) ruled that those laws are unconstitutional. Now, the states haven't taken them off the books, so I guess it's still "illegal." After the Johnson decision, Congress passed the Flag Protection Act of 1989, which was also overturned in a Supreme Court ruling (US vs Eichman). It, as well, is still on the books. But prosecuting attorneys aren't likely to enforce those laws, so police probably won't arrest you for flag burning. But -- cops still might harass you and hold you in jail for 24 hours for being an Anti-American person. That ought not to happen, but it does.

Well, what about using the flag for commercial purposes?

Interestingly, that one's clear-cut. It's absolutely illegal. The Supreme Court decision Halter v Nebraska way back in 1907 held that you can't use the flag in advertising. Other cases have upheld that commercial speech doesn't have the same protection as political speech. So the Republican Party, which uses flags printed on its letterhead, is in clear violation of the Flag Protection Act of 1989, as well as all the other state and federal laws against flag desecration. It's a wonder no one ever goes to jail for those crimes -- especially used car dealers with those flag pennants.

How many flags are burned every year?

No one knows, and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Congress used "seven per year" in a debate a few years back. Other people say way more than that. But since it's not an enforced law, the police aren't keeping tabs on it. You could count the number of publicized ones, but newspapers don't give flag burners much press these days. You could count how many protests involving flag burnings were registered in advance with the city courthouse, but most radical protestors don't bother to pre-register their flag desecrations. So. . . no one knows.
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