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I need some advice
Topic Started: Jun 9 2006, 01:17 PM (890 Views)
Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
schindler
Jun 9 2006, 07:58 PM
Rick: I gather that you're a professor. What subject do you teach?

I teach urban and regional planning; but believe it or not, I have never taken a class in the field. My Bachelor's Degree is in political science and my Masters is in public administration.

What I have, though, is 30+ years working with cities, counties, school districts, redevelopment agencies, the state, the Feds, private developers and a host of professionals in many disciplines in planning, economic development, redevelopment and community development. And, while most full time professors teach and do research, I teach and continue to practice my consulting. It give me a very practical perspective to pass on to the students -- but not a real academic one -- which is one of the reason I am not tenured and likely never will be.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
Jun 9 2006, 08:48 PM
schindler
Jun 9 2006, 07:09 PM
But, for example, those same people would say What the he!!? to James Joyce, one of the greatest of the 20th century authors. Does that mean we should dumb Joyce down? (I'm not comparing myself to Joyce, I'm just using him as an example.) Where's the line to draw between communicating to an audience and catering to one?

That's a very valid question and I am going to ask Dwain and the thumpster to answer this.

Why? Because I think as architects they have an insight I do not have, even though they are in a very different field from James Joyce.

Let me rephrase for them, but keep the basic question the same....

As an architect, when do you design focused on the client's desires and at what point do you become a Frank Lloyd Wright, Frank Gehry or someone of that stature that you may agree to design the type of building the client wants, but the client is going to have to accept YOUR design because of the stature you have in the field?

And is there a middle ground? If so, how do you handle it?

Interesting question, Rick.

Clients come to me because they see my projects, understand my principles and method from my publications and want the sort of buildings that I design. So I am not in the situation of giving them "what I want to give them" vs "what they want"-- at least not that divergently. At times I have to make significant concessions, but I see architecture as a service industry. it's about the clients and their true needs, not only mine. So we usually arrive at some accommodation of each other's expectations.

Architects such as Gehry or Eisenman get away with a lot, because every city to have "arrived" has to have signature architecture -- sort of the Bilbao phenomenon. There are a dozen or so starchitects (Botta, Meier, Libeskind, Ando, Holl, Venturi, Graves, Rogers, Starck, Calatrava, Pei, Herzog and de Meuron, Koolhaas, Foster, a few others) who can do virtually what they want and impose anything on a city (many of these sorts of projects are publicly funded museums or university buildings or federal courthouses or such). And many private clients will take what is given provided they can have that name brand architect for their building. Of course, the starchitect does the client interaction with the mucky mucks ("star f*cking"), scribbles a few lines on the bumwad with his Mont Blanc, and the associate partners and the slaves in the back room get to fill in the blanks.

Would that I were able to do that -- I could spend even more time in TNCR. :lol:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Shammy
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Middle Aged Carp
DivaDeb
Jun 9 2006, 06:54 PM
Kincaid
Jun 9 2006, 02:33 PM
I thought you got into College of the Ozarks?

he is there eventually, but is starting the summer term in Texas, I think Kincaid

Texas... well... that says it all...

Texas gave us Jeb and George. They are Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobics.
I'd rather fall into chocolate.
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
i know what that stupid word REALLY means, but it looks like it should mean something about being afraid of horses, monsters, and equipment... :blink:
And how are you today?
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garrett
Middle Aged Carp
I'm going to make the assumption that you are taking ENGL 1301.

If this is the case, then don't worry about it. Appease the professor. The class is basically designed to "weed out" students who are completely inept (as are most freshman level courses) or refuse to follow directions.

Since you've already been accepted to a University of your liking, you don't need to expend any extra energy to impress anyone (it's not as if you're trying to get a letter of reccomendation out of the prof.). That said, you should still shoot for an A in the class (but this should come fairly easy).

On a side note, I remember my history teacher when I was at a CC. I took every course she taught because we weren't required to buy a textbook (and money was tight at the time). We did however have to go to class every day (which I don't mind). She would sit on a wooden stool through the entire lecture talking "at a hundred MPH" while we would attempt to take notes and pay attention to everything she said. My hand would be in pain afterwards from the constant cramping that came from trying to keep up. I was a great class.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
You've already gotten great advice, but since you answered my question about your goal, I'll comment on your answer.

If your goal is to raise the consciousness of your professor, then you should kick up a fuss about the way your paper was reviewed. I don't know why you would care about the consciousness of this particular prof, but you'll have to decide.

If your goal is to get through the class with a good grade - as a stepping stone to something larger - they you'll do well to figure out what it takes to get the best grade and do exactly that.

It really is that simple, and once you've figured out why you are doing it, some of the resentment goes away. You're beating the game.
Wag more
Bark less
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Rick Zimmer
Jun 9 2006, 07:07 PM
schindler
Jun 9 2006, 04:27 PM
Rick:

I'm a freshman, just started college.

I'm not dissing the professor for her opinion on my paper. I haven't gotten that yet, as I've mentioned. Her teaching style is horrible, she has poor vocabulary, and she isn't expecting anything out of the students. Maybe that's the fault of the students, though.

I'm taking several courses in the CC before going on to university in missouri. It's not like I picked it because I wanted to go there for fun.

If I may give you some advice then.

First, do not assume you are going to get university level classes at a community college. Community colleges have a different mission than universities.

Second, if your goal is to get into a university, your objective in the community college is to keep that GPA up. As long as it is ethical, do what you need to do to get it high and keep it high. If that means do damned good work, then do damned good work. If that means play the game, then play the game.

Third, focus your curriculum on getting your general education requirements for the university you want to go to out of the way. Make sure whatever class you take will be accepted at the university of your choice. Both the university you want and the community college should be able to advise you on this.

Fourth, keep in mind that even in a university, the general education classes are very rudimentary. They are entry level classes for the entire university population; they are not even entry level for those who intend to major in that subject and thus are assumed to have at least a passing understanding of what the class is about.

Fifth, stop bitching. You are a freshman in college in the first days of school and you are talking as if you know more than people who have far better educations than you. You don't.

Sixth, if you find a class that after a couple of weeks seems to be below your skill level, talk to the professor and see what you can do. Some will let you focus your efforts differently; others won't. Deal with the cards you are dealt.

Seventh, you will find you like some professors more than others, learn from some more than others, respect some more than others. Welcome to the real world.

Eighth, if you want a university education, get your ass out of that community college as fast as possible.

Ninth, if you truly believe this class is not what you need/ewant, go talk to the head of your department and see what class you can transfer into. There are always a couple of weeks at the beginnning of the semester/quarter when you can add classes and generally a few extra weeks you can drop. Use this ability to get classes you think are worthwhile to the extent you can.

Tenth, if the attitude you showed in your initial post is how you are approaching all of your classes and the college, drop the attitude. It will get you nowhere and will just make your time there hell on earth. Look for what you can get out of a class -- even a lousy one -- rather than wasting your energy complaining.

Eleventh, since you do not sound like you want to be at that college, you should already be in contact with the university of your choice for next year -- maybe even a mid-year transfer this year. Go for it.

Sorry if this is blunt; but if you are old enough to judge your college professors and think you know more than they do, you are old enough for some straight talk.

Stop the presses! Man bites dog!

Or....Rick is absolutely right, and there is not a single word of his post I disagree with.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
On another note....CLEP'ing a course in one's major field does not usually count towards fulfilling your degree requirements...at least down here...

Secondly....Texas just instituted some new regs on Texas history at the collegiate level...if you ain't stayin' in Texas, avoid the courses....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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schindler
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Fulla-Carp
Steve Miller
Jun 10 2006, 09:32 AM
If your goal is to get through the class with a good grade - as a stepping stone to something larger - they you'll do well to figure out what it takes to get the best grade and do exactly that.

It really is that simple, and once you've figured out why you are doing it, some of the resentment goes away.  You're beating the game.

I started re-writing the paper last night. Actually, I started from scratch and wrote a completely straightfoward paper. And so far I have resisted all impulses to tweak it. :fallenhalo:

If she doesn't have enough imagination to see past her nose, then I'll give her what she wants, and by golly, it'll still be the best paper in the class!
We're all mad here!
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schindler
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Jun 10 2006, 09:47 AM
Secondly....Texas just instituted some new regs on Texas history at the collegiate level...if you ain't stayin' in Texas, avoid the courses....

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into it. . .

What kinds of regulations?
We're all mad here!
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
schindler
Jun 10 2006, 08:53 AM
Jolly
Jun 10 2006, 09:47 AM
Secondly....Texas just instituted some new regs on Texas history at the collegiate level...if you ain't stayin' in Texas, avoid the courses....

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into it. . .

What kinds of regulations?

I'm not sure how many, but you have to take Texas history.

I ran across that one while looking into some post-grad things for my son....apparently they are even requiring them for folks who possess a degree already....which I thought was a little strange....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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schindler
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Fulla-Carp
Hmmm. . . I haven't heard anything like that. I'm taking US history. Texas hasn't even been mentioned yet.

Maybe you have to take it if you're going to earn a degree in Texas. I'm just taking a few classes.
We're all mad here!
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jun 10 2006, 06:47 AM
On another note....CLEP'ing a course in one's major field does not usually count towards fulfilling your degree requirements...at least down here...

Secondly....Texas just instituted some new regs on Texas history at the collegiate level...if you ain't stayin' in Texas, avoid the courses....

CLEPing does not fulfill credit hour requirements, but it does fulfill prerequisites for classes one might prefer to take to fulfill their credit hour requirements. Instead of taking a pud course, you can take a second year class or one that is more specific in focus. At least that's the way it worked when I was in school. I found it very useful, in terms of getting the most out of the bucks I was spending on tuition.
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Matt G.
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Middle Aged Carp
Just one quick note to add: If you are at the CC gettting transfer credits to fulfill some basic curriculum requirements at UotO, find out from UotO whether or not transfer credits and grades count towards your University GPA. (In many cases they don't). The rationale behind this is that all you really need to do is pass the classes and get the credits/prerequisites done and out of the way at the CC. Your CC GPA won't mean diddly.

When I was in University, I did CC classes EVERY SUMMER (I even took one whole semester off) just to get some of those basic studies courses over with (and a lot cheaper, I might add), leaving me more free time to do things like practice when I was a music major. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
DivaDeb
Jun 10 2006, 09:11 AM
Jolly
Jun 10 2006, 06:47 AM
On another note....CLEP'ing a course in one's major field does not usually count towards fulfilling your degree requirements...at least down here...

Secondly....Texas just instituted some new regs on Texas history at the collegiate level...if you ain't stayin' in Texas, avoid the courses....

CLEPing does not fulfill credit hour requirements, but it does fulfill prerequisites for classes one might prefer to take to fulfill their credit hour requirements. Instead of taking a pud course, you can take a second year class or one that is more specific in focus. At least that's the way it worked when I was in school. I found it very useful, in terms of getting the most out of the bucks I was spending on tuition.

Ah....bring on the crips....if I could nuke an A in a course with minimal effort, it gave me more time to devote to something a bit more, er, challenging such as comparative vertebrate anatomy.

When every 0.1 change on a GPA is a hill to die for, an A is a precious commodity....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Qaanaaq-Liaaq
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Senior Carp
Reread the assignment carefully and give the professor what he's asking for. As far as “dumbing down” what you’ve written: it was your student peers who suggested it, not the professor. And it’s the professor who’s going to grade it, not your student peers so I wouldn’t attach much importance to what they said. Your essay might be too cerebral for them because they just don’t care to put in the effort to connect the dots. Maybe they think the anecdotes are written from way out in left field somewhere and they’re puzzled as to how the ancedotes relate to the total picture. If you want, you could add something to bridge the anecdotes together and explain why they’re important to you.

Everyone has experienced their share of sh!tty professors. Use the informal student network, that is your friends and acquaintances to find out who the best professors are in any department. A good professor will make a difference.
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Nina
Senior Carp
Do whatever it takes to get out of those awful entry level survey courses as quickly as possible. Your college education won't start until you're in upper-division courses, where everyone who bought into the whole "dumbing down" theory flunked out and is gone.

My 2c.
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