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| I need some advice | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 9 2006, 01:17 PM (892 Views) | |
| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 04:27 PM Post #26 |
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Rick: I'm a freshman, just started college. I'm not dissing the professor for her opinion on my paper. I haven't gotten that yet, as I've mentioned. Her teaching style is horrible, she has poor vocabulary, and she isn't expecting anything out of the students. Maybe that's the fault of the students, though. I'm taking several courses in the CC before going on to university in missouri. It's not like I picked it because I wanted to go there for fun. |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Horace | Jun 9 2006, 04:42 PM Post #27 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It's not much of a startling revelation that you'll be surrounded by idiots at a community college. I dont' think you should pay any attention to their reaction to your work. Things'll be different at a real college and in more advanced classes and in the workplace if you're in a technical field. No shortage of smart people out there. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 9 2006, 04:46 PM Post #28 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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There are still MANY idiots at a "real" college. I look at some people at my school and wonder how they got there....
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| And how are you today? | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 04:49 PM Post #29 |
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It was a bit of a suprise to me. I've been homeschooled my whole life. No classroom experience. |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 05:07 PM Post #30 |
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If I may give you some advice then. First, do not assume you are going to get university level classes at a community college. Community colleges have a different mission than universities. Second, if your goal is to get into a university, your objective in the community college is to keep that GPA up. As long as it is ethical, do what you need to do to get it high and keep it high. If that means do damned good work, then do damned good work. If that means play the game, then play the game. Third, focus your curriculum on getting your general education requirements for the university you want to go to out of the way. Make sure whatever class you take will be accepted at the university of your choice. Both the university you want and the community college should be able to advise you on this. Fourth, keep in mind that even in a university, the general education classes are very rudimentary. They are entry level classes for the entire university population; they are not even entry level for those who intend to major in that subject and thus are assumed to have at least a passing understanding of what the class is about. Fifth, stop bitching. You are a freshman in college in the first days of school and you are talking as if you know more than people who have far better educations than you. You don't. Sixth, if you find a class that after a couple of weeks seems to be below your skill level, talk to the professor and see what you can do. Some will let you focus your efforts differently; others won't. Deal with the cards you are dealt. Seventh, you will find you like some professors more than others, learn from some more than others, respect some more than others. Welcome to the real world. Eighth, if you want a university education, get your ass out of that community college as fast as possible. Ninth, if you truly believe this class is not what you need/ewant, go talk to the head of your department and see what class you can transfer into. There are always a couple of weeks at the beginnning of the semester/quarter when you can add classes and generally a few extra weeks you can drop. Use this ability to get classes you think are worthwhile to the extent you can. Tenth, if the attitude you showed in your initial post is how you are approaching all of your classes and the college, drop the attitude. It will get you nowhere and will just make your time there hell on earth. Look for what you can get out of a class -- even a lousy one -- rather than wasting your energy complaining. Eleventh, since you do not sound like you want to be at that college, you should already be in contact with the university of your choice for next year -- maybe even a mid-year transfer this year. Go for it. Sorry if this is blunt; but if you are old enough to judge your college professors and think you know more than they do, you are old enough for some straight talk. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 05:18 PM Post #31 |
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You then have to adjust to the fact no one is going to customize your education any longer. You now need to learn how to make the most out of a classroom experience. While there are benefits to being homeschooled, lack of experience in the classroom is one of the pitfalls. Consider this a learning experience and you will find it easier. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 05:58 PM Post #32 |
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Granted.
It isn't my goal to get into a university, because I've already been accepted into a university. And if the game isn't worth playing?
That's what I'm doing. I'm taking rudimentary courses that have to be taken everywhere at the CC now, and then I'll focus on my major in university.
I know a rotten educator when I see one.
I will talk to the professor on Monday. And I've been dealing with the cards I've been dealt all my life. And I've made the most of them.
I realize that.
What happened to deal with the cards you've been dealt? This is the only option open to me right now. I'm taking it. And as I've mentioned before, I was already accepted to a university. I'm starting in January.
Thanks for the advice. Will do.
This is the only class of the three I'm taking that I have a problem with. In my US history class we are covering a lot of material that I am already familiar with, but I don't resent that. The prof is a great teacher and he makes even old material sound interesting. It's the general attitude of the teacher that I resent.
Thanks for the encouragement.
I never claimed to know more than she did. At least I don't think I did. I never meant to. But she doesn't teach well, have a good attitude, or take a very large interest in the class. She's not any good. And I didn't pay to get taught stuff that I knew when I was 12. I think switching classes is a good idea. First thing on Monday. |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Dewey | Jun 9 2006, 06:16 PM Post #33 |
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Rick, there's a bit of history about how/why schindler's in CC - it wasn't due to inadequate GPA, or lack of desire or even acceptance at uni. I don't remember all the details, but I remember being really frustrated over it on schindler's behalf when reading it a while back. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 06:20 PM Post #34 |
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Aww, thanks, Dwa. . . Dewey. ![]() I was really frustrated too! |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Dewey | Jun 9 2006, 06:25 PM Post #35 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Back atcha, bud... in a huntin' & fishin' kinda way, of course... :lol: |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jun 9 2006, 06:37 PM Post #36 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Schindler, Do not accept for granted that you will get lesser instructors at a community college. I have spent considerable time at both community college and university. The difference between a great instructor and a not-so-great one was their attitude, not their degree. For instance, the freshman writing instructor I had at a community college was far better than most of the English professors I ever had at university. Give the instructor a chance. And the college. Anyone who tells you to assume otherwise simply has either a prejudice or a vested interest in that perception. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 06:37 PM Post #37 |
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I prefer the word platonic, since I neither hunt, nor fish.
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| We're all mad here! | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 06:48 PM Post #38 |
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True enough, Mik. There are some excellent educators in the community college system. However, there is a different purpose for community colleges and a different educational environment. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 06:55 PM Post #39 |
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I like the college. I really do. I'm enjoying myself there. But it's just this one teacher. . . Ah well. I was talking to my dad just now (via chat). He said that being able to work with my audience, even if it's an inferior one, will make me a better writer in the long run. That if I can keep the substance of the paper, yet make it readable for morons, I'll have accomplished something that's hard to do. I guess that makes sense. I still think the teacher is lousy though. |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jun 9 2006, 07:04 PM Post #40 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Dad is right.. regardless of what YOU think of a work, if your audience says 'ick!' or yawns, you missed the mark.. and the mark is difficult to define in an assignment. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 07:09 PM Post #41 |
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But, for example, those same people would say What the he!!? to James Joyce, one of the greatest of the 20th century authors. Does that mean we should dumb Joyce down? (I'm not comparing myself to Joyce, I'm just using him as an example.) Where's the line to draw between communicating to an audience and catering to one? |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Horace | Jun 9 2006, 07:15 PM Post #42 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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do you want to make a living at it or are you independently wealthy? If you want to make a living then your audience is primary at least until you establish yourself, so use all your talents and all your intelligence to give them what they want within the realm of your own aims and tastes. No matter how low brow the audience, appealing to them is an act of consistently underrated difficulty. (It takes real talent to write an n-sync song or an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.) ARtists who've never done anything that the common man actually likes, have proven nothing whatsoever about their talent. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Horace | Jun 9 2006, 07:16 PM Post #43 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Just for the record, I was talking about the students, rather than the teachers. TEachers at community colleges can be very good since they are often employed full time in the private sector in whatever subject they teach. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 07:40 PM Post #44 |
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Let me add on to what I said, Mik, because it may help put things in perspective for our young student. I think it is far easier to teach at a university level than it is to teach at a community college level. For me, all of the students I teach are aiming at a Bachelor or Masters degree. Further, for most disciplines, by the time students get to their major subjects, they have gotten their general ed out of the way and all of the students are interested in the same field. Plus, these are mainly students who are academically oriented; they either have excelled enough in high school to get into a university or they have focused themselves in a community college in order to get into the university. In a community college, the teachers do not have such a homogenous, focused group. Some are there like Schindler as a means of getting their general ed out of the way and moving on to a university. Some are there because they do not have the academic qualifications to get into a university and don't intend to obtain them. Others are focused solely on an Associate degree in some field. Others are seeking simply a vocational education in one of the trades or technical fields. Others finished high school, have no idea what they want to do and they simply floated into community college for no rhyme nor reason -- it's just something to do. Still others are returning to school for re-training or re-education after being in the workforce for many years, bringing with them a lot of life experience. Now, you put together a classroom of students made up of that amount of diversity and you have to be one helluva an educator to teach that group. My job is far easier. This also explains why the academic environment is very different at a university from what what it is at a community college. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 07:41 PM Post #45 |
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You're dad's a smart man. You will do well to listen to him -- on this and a lot of other topics, I suspect. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 07:48 PM Post #46 |
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That's a very valid question and I am going to ask Dwain and the thumpster to answer this. Why? Because I think as architects they have an insight I do not have, even though they are in a very different field from James Joyce. Let me rephrase for them, but keep the basic question the same.... As an architect, when do you design focused on the client's desires and at what point do you become a Frank Lloyd Wright, Frank Gehry or someone of that stature that you may agree to design the type of building the client wants, but the client is going to have to accept YOUR design because of the stature you have in the field? And is there a middle ground? If so, how do you handle it? |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 9 2006, 07:51 PM Post #47 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Rick, some profs really are bad. As you're (from what I've read here) a good one, I'll assume you don't know about bad profs. I've had a few at my college that sound just like Schind's prof. Sometimes students do know more. Some ink on a piece of paper doesn't give one the right to belittle others. It also doesn't make one instantly smarter and more knowledgable than a student, even in one's field of study. Surprising, but very true. |
| And how are you today? | |
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| schindler | Jun 9 2006, 07:58 PM Post #48 |
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Rick: I gather that you're a professor. What subject do you teach? |
| We're all mad here! | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 9 2006, 08:10 PM Post #49 |
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Oh I know about bad professors. Believe me, I hear about them from my students and I have to hold my tongue and be very circumspect in my responses simply because it would be inappropriate for me to say what I am really thinking. Hell, just read some of the websites where the students rate and comment on their professors and you find out really fast that there are some real lousy professors out there! Interestingly enough, the reason I got the full time position I have is because of one such professor who was fired after one year because the student complaints were so vociferous. When I was teaching part time, about 2/3's of one class I had was immediately after a class this professor taught. Boy, did the students walk into my class angry many times. One day, they just started to vent in my class and then confronted me and wanted to know what to do about it. It was a very awkward moment because I could tell their complaints were very valid and they were not just a bunch of students mouthing off. (As you can tell from my comments to Schindler and ones I have made to Sam, I have little patience with college students mouthing off and just complaining). And yet it would have been unprofessional of me to feed on their discontent and anger. So, I turned it back to them and asked them what THEY were going to do about it. The class session turned out to be how to approach such a problem, how to raise valid complaints about a superior to that person's superior without doing so as whining children who were not getting what they wanted, but in an intelligent, yet forceful manner, how to lay out their case and how to make their point maturely and professionally while not attacking the individual's character or in a personal way. I figured that while it had nothing to do with the class topic or with urban planning, it did have something to do with how to act in a professional setting -- thus making it a valid topic to discuss. Damned if they didn't listen this time! A group got themselves organized, prepared their pitch, made an appointment with the chair of the department and made their case. (BTW, I had no idea that if this person left, I would be offered that full time position). |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 9 2006, 08:15 PM Post #50 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That's really cool, Rick! I wish other profs were like you! I can't stand it when they teach a college class like highschoolers, which many do, as they are former high school teachers. I like that you don't tolerate whining, etc. I try not to do that. All of my "complaints" have been valid in that I felt cheated. I pay for them to teach me, and I don't want to pay to learn stuff I already know (which was the case in MANY of my freshman classes). |
| And how are you today? | |
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10:41 PM Jul 12