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| Californians hate libraries and 4 year olds!!! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 7 2006, 09:04 AM (351 Views) | |
| tcmod | Jun 7 2006, 09:04 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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What I really like about this article is the reasonable tax increase for individuals and couples. The income required for the increase, 400k/800k per year, are much closer to "rich" Americans than the crap level of 150k per year that Hillary and others think make you rich. If your household makes 150 a year you are middle class in almost every state. poor in NYC. Hope the rest of the gov't takes note. Calif. voters reject $600 mln bond, tax increase SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California voters appeared to have rejected ballot measures to authorize the state to sell $600 million in bonds for libraries and raise taxes to fund free preschool for 4-year-old children, according to election results early on Wednesday. With 43.9 percent of precincts reporting, 53.4 percent of votes had been cast against Proposition 81 and 46.6 percent of votes had been cast in favor of the measure, which proposed the general obligation debt sale to finance building and renovating libraries. The state's Legislative Analyst's Office had estimated it would have cost California $1.2 billion from its general fund over 30 years to pay off the $600 million in principal and $570 million in interest expenses from the debt. Voters also rejected Proposition 82, which had been spearheaded by actor-director Rob Reiner and backed by the state's teachers' union, the California Teachers Association. The ballot measure would have imposed a 1.7 percent tax on individuals with incomes above $400,000 and on couples with incomes above $800,000 to raise $2.4 billion to fund the preschool program. The measure was rejected by 59.3 percent of voters and supported by 40.7 of voters, according to results from 43.9 percent of precincts. |
| Dead girls don't say no, but you still have to buy them flowers | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 7 2006, 09:15 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I voted for the bond issue for libraries -- I happen to think libraries are important. I voted against the pre-school initiative. I did not mind the revenue source; it simply raised the rate for the wealthiest back to where it was under the last GOP governor. However, I did not like the idea of universal pre-school. 4 years old is too early to start mandating school. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| tcmod | Jun 7 2006, 09:20 AM Post #3 |
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Senior Carp
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you disgusting liberal!! just kidding of course.....why do you think this? i don't have kids or a position on what is too young. I understand you are a home economics teacher at the high school level and I would like to know your reasons.
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| Dead girls don't say no, but you still have to buy them flowers | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 7 2006, 09:35 AM Post #4 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I believe this society already places far too much structure on children through all of the after school and weekend prgrams they get dragged to and they do not have times just to be kids, to learn on their own, to experiment on their own, etc. I think kids need to have unstructured time just to develop their own interests and their own personalities. We do no give them enough of this time. I think this is especially true in the pre-school years. The initiative would have required a specific curriculum be developed, credentialled teachers be hired and all of the other trappings that would have brought about a vewry structured experience for these children. Further, it would not have provided funding for programs that did not meet these requirements -- such things as Montessori would have been left out, as well as a lot of the day care type experiences offered by a variety of alternative sources. Thus, the state would have established a specific regimentation for these children. I just don't think such regimentation is good for kids at that age. Let them, at this age develop as freely as they can. To me, 4 year olds are still babies in many ways. Let them have that one more year before we throw them into the school system in kindergarten. If a parent wants a more structured pre-school experience that's fine. But we should not make it public policy. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Christopher T | Jun 7 2006, 09:42 AM Post #5 |
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Junior Carp
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They force kids to go to school really young and then they call them ADD and/or ADHD when they just want to go play outside instead of sitting in their desks paying 100% attention to the teachers... go figure. |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 7 2006, 09:46 AM Post #6 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Especially if they are boys -- being boys. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 7 2006, 10:01 AM Post #7 |
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MAMIL
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Speaking as someone with a four year old boy (turns 5 in July), I think 4/5 is the right age to start school, at least for this sample of one. We're paying for two years of private schooling (1/2 day this year, full day next) and it's paying massive dividends both in our sanity and his. In the UK you start school in your 5th year, and based on the children under 10 that we know over here and over there, it makes a massive difference. The British kids I know are significantly ahead of their American counterparts educationally. Chris T - a good teacher will not make 4 year olds sit at their desks paying attention the whole day. My son gets to do a lot of running around too. I'd go as far as to say that getting him to sit still for more than 20 minutes would require something other than just words. A combination of Ritalin, rope and firearms might do the trick on a good day. Schooling for 4 year-olds does not need to be massively structured. Ours goes to a Montessori school which encourages self-exploration and allows him a great deal of freedom, but it's still school. Am I saying this should be obligatory for all kids? No, I'm not. But for ours, it's wonderful, and what's more he loves it. I'm just glad I can (barely) afford to do it. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Christopher T | Jun 7 2006, 10:06 AM Post #8 |
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Junior Carp
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I think back to when I started Kindergarten, and it was very structured. They had specific times for specific tasks. They had a piano in the classroom and they never let me play it. The teacher said it wasn't fair to the other students who wanted to play it (meanwhile i could actually play songs and not just bang on the keys)....I never did like that teacher much. :angry: |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jun 7 2006, 10:11 AM Post #9 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I fondly remember kindergarten. I ate a lot back then. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 7 2006, 10:39 AM Post #10 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Chris: The healing can begin, if you just let go... |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Optimistic | Jun 7 2006, 10:40 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I agree, Rick. I know plenty of people who never attended pre-school (myself and siblings, for one) and did just fine. It seems like nowadays parents are so focused on getting their children a head-start on everything, and I think sometimes people go overboard with it. Not that a head-start can't be beneficial; just make sure you're not piling too much on the kids' plates. Let them enjoy their early years! A few of the primary grades teachers (1st-3rd) have commented that some major changes are going to have to be made to our curriculum, as students are coming into 1st grade with abilities that they normally wouldn't have until after completing 1st grade. A good thing? Probably, yes. But at the same time it seems like many of them are requiring supplemental teaching in the basics (like basic math skills). |
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PHOTOS I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up. - Mark Twain We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -T. S. Eliot | |
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| sue | Jun 7 2006, 11:01 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Rick, i completely agree. Not saying it's not good for some kids, but there is a lot of pressure on parents now to have junior signed up for so many classes, because johnny down the road is, and what a bad parent you would be if you didn't follow suit. I think we are doing our kids a real disservice by not allowing unstructured time. They need it. I think Chris' theory is interesting. I live in a community with an extremely high under 5 population; and every year there are more and more organised activities that kids are hauled off to. And we live in a place with forests, parks, beaches, trails.... |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jun 7 2006, 11:05 AM Post #13 |
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Fulla-Carp
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The studies I have seen is it all evens out about the 4th grade -- meaning all of this rushing early on really has no impact in the long run. The kids find their own level. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Steve Miller | Jun 7 2006, 11:24 AM Post #14 |
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Bull-Carp
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I voted against both measures. The preschool one looked like little more than a power and $ grab on the part of the teacher's union. I'm generally in favor of libraries and would have voted to approve the library initiative had I not just witnessed the destruction of a perfectly nice one in favor of a much more opulent one of approximately the same size in a neighboring town. Obviously, they have enough money already. |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| iainhp | Jun 7 2006, 11:25 AM Post #15 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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This year it's sending 4 year olds to school....next year it'll be 3 year olds. All very 1984. I voted against it. Also voted against the libraries. I like books but I think libraries are becoming museums. If I need to research anything I use the internet. So do my kids (that's what they teach in schools). Not sure how many actually check books out of the library, but we appear to have sufficient libraries to support them. The money would probably be better spent fixin the freeways. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jun 7 2006, 11:33 AM Post #16 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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IMO, this certainly isn't an isolated issue with just parents and children. Kids have more standardized tests in school than they used to. Programs like recess and music are replaced for more studying time. The widening unmet need gap from tuition means kids have to work harder to pay for college, even if they're already eligable on an academic level. Once in college full-time, you're also expected to get work experience before you graduate. Once you've graduated, you're required more schooling than once was previously necessary. Companies require you to do more, work harder, longer, and more efficiently. It's funny that, living in the technological age, all the things that are designed to make our lives easier only end up as tools we use to do more in the same amount of time. Societal demand really needs to slow down. ...In this country, anyway. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Jolly | Jun 7 2006, 11:42 AM Post #17 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I did not attend kindergarten. I am scarred for life.
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| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Jun 7 2006, 11:52 AM Post #18 |
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MAMIL
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Well, I guess I'm in the minority. I have to say, the school my son goes to as a replacement for kindergarten is the happiest learning environment I've ever witnessed. Not much like 1984, where I think the intent was to keep people in ignorance more than allow them to learn. My son's idea of room 101 is a room without stuff to |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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and I would like to know your reasons.

5:00 PM Jul 10