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| Imprisonment of criminal adolescents | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 1 2006, 02:27 AM (322 Views) | |
| Klaus | Jun 1 2006, 02:27 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What do you think? |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 1 2006, 02:58 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Rehabilitation. No question. I have a huge problem with the way the young offenders act (now called something else, but I can't remember the new terminology) here in Canada works. When they are released, they aren't given any sort of transition back into society, and often have no money, no job, and nowhere to go. So they go the only place they have - right back to the group of people that led them down that path to begin with. Our vice principal used to work in a youth detention facility, and he said that they would have kids that were model prisoners, gotten their highschool diploma while in detention, and had high hopes for living a normal life on the outside. A year later, they'd end up back in the facility. Many times, they'd explain to him that they got out and they were unable to find work because of their criminal record, often didn't have a home to go to, and their friends and acquaintances were the ones that ended up supporting them. Largely, those friends were involved in illegal activity, and they end up reoffending because they don't know how else to make ends meet or survive in their community. They would be remorseful for what had happened and knew what they were doing was wrong, but felt they had no options. It was a matter of survival. Young offenders should receive counselling, education, and have a transition plan when they get out. They should be set up with a place to live (a half way house not for additional punishment, but for support), a job, and a support network. The problem is it is expensive to do so, and everyone feels it is not their job. The benefits - the likelihood of repeat offences going down dramatically - are difficult to measure quantitatively and justify fiscally, so everyone is reluctant to spend the money. Even the system they have in place to work through the transition has major flaws - everyone involved feels it is the job of someone else. But tossing these youth back into the situation they came from almost guarantees that they'll end up exactly where they ended up the first time. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| LWpianistin | Jun 1 2006, 03:37 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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punishment, but "not for their sins", just because they did something wrong. i think they should be punished, and then the rehabilitation thing should start. |
| And how are you today? | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 1 2006, 05:27 AM Post #4 |
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I voted for rehab, but I think it's a combination of punishment and rehabilitation. Adolescents being sent to jail or to "juvi" for a couple of years isn't to permanently seal them off from society. They are heading down a bad path and society wants to try and correct (read: rehabilitate) them before it's too late and they commit a major crime as an adult where jail will be a much longer-term answer. |
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| ***musical princess*** | Jun 1 2006, 05:28 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Punishment and rehab. x |
| x Caroline x | |
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| Larry | Jun 1 2006, 05:40 AM Post #6 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Your poll doesn't give enough information to give a proper answer to. What crime are they guilty of? If they got caught carrying their personal drug stash, then rehabilitation is what's needed. If they held up a gas station with a stick, then punishment and rehabilitation is what's needed. If they raped someone, killed someone, of engaged in some other violent act against another person, then they should be taken out behind the courthouse and shot between the eyes until dead. If they raped or killed, it might require multiple shots between the eyes in order to be sure they are dead...... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Klaus | Jun 1 2006, 05:55 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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OK, to make it more concrete lets say he/she is 15 years old, has stolen a car or broken into a house and is not unknown to the police because he has beat up a others a couple of times previously. In Germany we have a real problem with criminals that are less than 14 years old because, by law, it is not possible to do anything about them because they have not yet reached the age of criminal responsibility. They get caught but the police has to set them free again. I would not want to send kids to jail but it should at least be possible to cancel the custodianship of their parents and send them to a place where they learn to behave in a civil manner. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jun 1 2006, 06:18 AM Post #8 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I voted for both punishment and rehabilitation. And dol's totally right; some places here in the U.S. as well, there's just plain no place for these kids to go once they're back out into the world, other than back into the system. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Larry | Jun 1 2006, 06:18 AM Post #9 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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With that scenario, I agree with you. There should be a level at which point the crime becomes "big" enough to allow the legal system to drop the minor child status and prosecute the kid as an adult. At the same time, the parents of a kid doing the things you listed should also be arrested for being poor parents, and forced to learn how to raise a kid properly. For kids like this, their punishment should be immediate, and embarrassing. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Mark | Jun 1 2006, 06:19 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I checked all 4. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| DivaDeb | Jun 1 2006, 07:27 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In my opinion, rehab and punishment can't be separate functions of imprisonment, especially of juveniles. In order to rehabilitate undisciplined young offenders, a punishment must be prescribed that is of enough severity to demonstrate the concept they have either never been taught or have failed to grasp, the concept that actions have consequences. The punishment should be severe enough to teach. Offending youth have often never been taught the value and necessity of hard work and respect for authority. Another concept young people often don't understand is that all human beings are vincible. When they are caught commiting criminal acts, it's an excellent time to educate them about these things. First time minor offenders should get the lights scared out of them with a short custodial sentence followed by a court supervised education requirements and a whole lot of community service hours. First time convictions for felonies should spend enough time incarcerated to be assessed educationally and psychologically. Their time inside should be safe but very difficult. They should be released not after a pre-determined amount of time, but after completing a pre-determined set of accomplishments demonstrating the attitudinal changes necessary to function in society. Custodial sentences should be followed by a *severe* and rigorously monitored program of educational and service requirements that must be met in order to remain free. The terms of their release until they reach the age of majority should be contingent upon the maintenance of school attendance with good behavior reports and a grade average based on assessment of the kid's abilities while in custody. Other requirements might include driver education, remedial academic programs, drug/alcohol abuse education, counseling appointments, work-study and community service hours, meetings with a mentor etc. The kid should be so busy fulfilling his requirements to stay out of the slammer that he doesn't have time to execute a crime. The family (if there is one) should be taken apart with a fine tooth comb especially if there are other children in the home. If he's safer or better off away from the family, or if there are kids in the home who are all right and are better off without him around, he should be removed from the home. This will often involve invading the privacy of people who are not accused of any crime. However, I think families that produce felons need to be assessed for evidence of abuse, neglect, and/or criminal involvement. Both the caregivers (parents or court appointed) and the child should be held accountable for the offender's successful completion of his program. Lots of paperwork, lots of documentation, lots of dollars. But ultimately this is the only process that has any potential of salvaging the kid from the refuse heap of humanity. Needless to say, there will be young offenders who will not respond. If they offend again, they should have to relenquish their status as protected juvenile offenders and take their punishment like the adults they believe they are. |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jun 1 2006, 08:35 AM Post #12 |
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Bull-Carp
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I have grave reservations about the current Young Offenders laws in this country. Criminal teenage males in particular use the protection of the Young Offenders Law to indulge in antisocial criminal activities with impunity. The Law as it stands is a bad law. Anyone 14 years and over should be tried in regular criminal court and face the consequences of their action in full. |
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| DivaDeb | Jun 1 2006, 08:49 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Hi AC, can you summarize Canadian juvi law? I have some fairly extensive knowledge of US law in the state of Kansas but no idea what the differences might be between the two countries. There are some pretty remarkable differences state to state here. |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jun 1 2006, 09:04 AM Post #14 |
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Bull-Carp
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Young Offenders Act 2000- summary Canada Young Offenders Act |
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| Nina | Jun 1 2006, 10:16 AM Post #15 |
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Senior Carp
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Are we talking about what should be, or what is? Rehabilitation in today's justice system (at least in the US) is virtually non-existent. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jun 1 2006, 10:19 AM Post #16 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Or at least, there's no follow-up afterwards. A lot of times, you're ****ed if you leave that system and want to make something of yourself. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Nina | Jun 1 2006, 10:22 AM Post #17 |
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Senior Carp
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Wait, are we talking about the juvenile system ("juvie hall") or prison? There are attempts to rehabilitate in the juvenile system. They don't work all that well, but they are there. There's precious little in the adult prison system. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jun 1 2006, 10:23 AM Post #18 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Well the thread started with criminal adolescents and the institutions that house them, but I suppose that my last statement can be applied to both. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Klaus | Jun 1 2006, 10:38 AM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In Germany, it is the opposite - we focus only on rehabilitation. I guess a mixture of the two systems would be perfect... |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| DivaDeb | Jun 1 2006, 12:22 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I think we're talking both "should" and "is" Nina. It started with a poll about what we thought consequences of juvenile crime ought to consist of. The discussion is going in a lot of directions. It's pretty interesting because of the international nature of the membership. (thanks AC for the links!) |
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