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| For those in favor of Capital Punishment; What's your opinion on this one? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 31 2006, 06:09 PM (815 Views) | |
| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:15 PM Post #26 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh, I disagree. If there is one thing they can be trusted for, it is that. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:17 PM Post #27 |
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Junior Carp
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Not true. Or death row would be a large party of one. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:20 PM Post #28 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Death row isn't really general population though, is it? Besides (and I know I'm sidestepping on this one a bit), I'm just as confident in the idea of no chance for parole EVER being an effective method of removing these people from society as the death penalty may be. The problems with this - the slim possibility of escape and the expense of keeping them in prison if the prison gangs don't dispose of them are the exact same problems a death row sentence has attached to it. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:23 PM Post #29 |
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Junior Carp
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I don't think the cost for death row is really all that much higher (sans legal costs which when I rule the cosmos will be moot) than triple max for "dangerous offenders". It's the same cost without a definative end point. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:25 PM Post #30 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm not saying the cost is lower. They are very likely pretty equal, when you factor in all the appeals and such that end up happening in a death row sentence. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:30 PM Post #31 |
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Junior Carp
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And if they're equal... What's the point of keeping 'em alive, eh? |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:32 PM Post #32 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I've already stated that - I just don't like the idea of the state killing people. I don't like the "do as I say, not as I do' flavour to it. It may be a bit arbitrary, but frankly, so is your preference for the death penalty as a means of removing them from society. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:37 PM Post #33 |
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Junior Carp
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Arbitrary? There is only one way to be 100% sure that an offender of such a caliber can NEVER EVER commit such a crime again is death. Simple. As long as they are alive there is a possibility that they could do it again. And there are some really bad people that shouldn't be given a second chance, no matter how remote. How do we remove all possibility of that second chance? Death. And I find the "do as I say, not as I do" arguement flawed. Police officers are given that privledge on a more mundane basis every day. They're charged with apprehending criminals and all that good stuff, things that as a representative of the State they are obliged to do but common citizens are discouraged from doing the same. For excellent reasons, certianly. Again, vigilantism is a bad thing in a well ordered society. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:41 PM Post #34 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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True enough. But a police officer given the rights to do certain things that civilians are not allowed to do is for a different end - if we didn't give them those rights, then the bad guys would just run amok. The idea of the death penalty is, in your view, a way to remove them from society and I don't feel that the death penalty offers any more protection to society than the idea of no possibility for release in a maximum security prison. I also have some issues about the possibility of someone being put to death and then later evidence showing that it shouldn't have been the case. Sure, it doesn't happen often, but there are quite a few instances of people being put on death row who didn't exaclty meet the "non-rehabilitatable" (yes, I just made up that word) criteria. It doesn't happen often, but the possibility is alarming, because you just can't take it back. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:46 PM Post #35 |
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Junior Carp
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Oh? Different than the protection of society? Do tell.
I'll cry myself to sleep every time it happens. *sic It's so __ing hard to be convicted of capital murder anymore. I think I can live with that. Besides, take a gander at the folks on the Texas Department of Justice website. They can NEVER be released. There are some really bad folks waiting for a great big lungful of cyanide. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:48 PM Post #36 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What I mean is that they are protecting society, and if they weren't there to do it, it just wouldn't get done. Whereas with the death penalty vs. the no release dangerous offender argument, the same result happens with both scenarios. And I don't think I ever suggested that the people we are discussing should ever be let back into society. Quite the contrary. Our means for doing so are just different. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:51 PM Post #37 |
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Junior Carp
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Yeah, mine's more effective. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:53 PM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You're a brat. I'll just take pride in the fact that I know that I've already somewhat changed your view on the way these people need to be handled. Maybe not in the end result, but I've made some ground. Considering how opinionated you are, that's victory enough for me. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Mister Soak | May 31 2006, 07:56 PM Post #39 |
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Junior Carp
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You're right. I would be totally okay with them being incarcerated in the same way as depleted uranium rods used in nuclear weapons. I could deal with that as far as indefinate incarceration. No prob. |
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Mister Soak | |
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| dolmansaxlil | May 31 2006, 07:57 PM Post #40 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You go ahead and hide behind your considerable wit, love. I know I'm right. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| ivorythumper | May 31 2006, 07:59 PM Post #41 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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To do that intentionally would indeed be cruel and unusual punishment. If the state cares enough to incarcerate someone, then the state should provide for the safety of the prisoners. Humane treatment of prisoners is a hallmark of a civilized society. Either have the courage of your convictions and allow the state to execute them, or lock them up where they can't hurt anyone any more and no one can hurt them. You just want someone else to do your dirty work for you, as if that absolves you from your delicate scruples. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| kentcouncil | May 31 2006, 08:16 PM Post #42 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Yeah, but it sucks if it happens to you. And it's not as uncommon as you think. Here in Illinois, 13 death row convictions were overturned when it was revealed that confessions were beaten out of the men by police in some cases, and evidence was falsified in others. Gov. Ryan ultimately determined that the capital system was so rife with error that he commuted the sentence of every single death row inmate in 2003. |
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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't. - P.G. Wodehouse | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jun 1 2006, 03:40 AM Post #43 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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And it was a very courageous act by Ryan.. and, IMO, correct. By the way, I'm still having trouble figuring out why any legislation would require a chiild rapist to do it TWICE before the major penalties kick in. 'sup with that? Once is not enough to be SURE they're a predator? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Dewey | Jun 1 2006, 03:51 AM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Life imprisonment, no parole. I've personally come to the point that I have almost no faith at all in the ultimate justice of the US judicial system. From bad judges to bad attorneys to bad cops to bad witnesses to bad jurors, mistakes are made and injustice, rather than justice, is meted out too often to use the death penalty as often as it is. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| ***musical princess*** | Jun 1 2006, 04:02 AM Post #45 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'm all for capitol punishment. My opinion on this? Shoot them once in each ball so they know the pain that those poor girls went through and then give them the lethal injection. In fact, no, that would cost too much and they don't deserve it, just shoot them a third time right in the middle of their eyes. Sick b*stards. x |
| x Caroline x | |
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| bachophile | Jun 1 2006, 04:51 AM Post #46 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i believe that saddam used to send the bill for execution to the family. nice touch... on the other hand, there r some laws on the books that have the death penalty which r problematic. the uniform code of military justice still has the death penalty for cowardice in battle. i think as late as ww2 this was used. (saw a movie about that once...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Slovik |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| ***musical princess*** | Jun 1 2006, 04:54 AM Post #47 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Where was i hearing about that recently? Was it on here or on the news? Any GBers know what i'm talking about? It was something to do with the families of soldiers who had been killed for cowardice... x |
| x Caroline x | |
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| JBryan | Jun 1 2006, 04:55 AM Post #48 |
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I am the grey one
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The Chinese send a bill for the bullet to the families of those executed. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| ***musical princess*** | Jun 1 2006, 04:56 AM Post #49 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What happens if they don't pay it? x |
| x Caroline x | |
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| JBryan | Jun 1 2006, 05:00 AM Post #50 |
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I am the grey one
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The bill is hand delivered with escort... |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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12:35 AM Jul 11