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| Going In The Wrong Direction | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 31 2006, 06:26 AM (370 Views) | |
| Rick Zimmer | May 31 2006, 06:26 AM Post #1 |
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Fulla-Carp
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As the violence continues to increase in Iraq, the Pentagon has announced it has sent an additional 1500 troops there. May not seem like many, but it is these little stories that tell us how accurate the stories they want us to believe are. Apparently the training of the Iraqi forces is not going very well, if they can't even scrounge together 1500 from the supposed tens of thousands who we are told are making great headway in their training. Of course, the Iraqi politicians continue to feel no sense of urgency. They still haven't chosen the Interior or Defense ministers. But then, why should they hurry? Bush has made it very clear that he is willing to continue to sacrifice American troops indefinitely, so they might as well continue to piddle around. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| The 89th Key | May 31 2006, 08:03 AM Post #2 |
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Rick, regardless of your opinion about how we got into the war. Can you NOT see how it would be 10 times worse if we left prematurely? |
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| Aqua Letifer | May 31 2006, 08:10 AM Post #3 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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"leaving prematurely" means, what, exactly? Leaving before things are secure? And just how is that going, securing Iraq? I think that's what Rick is trying to get at. And it's important. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Rick Zimmer | May 31 2006, 08:25 AM Post #4 |
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Fulla-Carp
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No, I cannot imagine it getting much worse than it is now if we left. There is no government to speak of. Those who claim to be the government cannot even form one. They are removed from the people and hidden in the Green Zone, protected by American soldiers, as they play their silly ego games. There is a growing disatisfafction with these so-called leaders and a view that the electins and the Consitution that was approved -- withthe promise it would be immediately re-written if and when a government was in place -- is meaningless. The economy is in shambles. They are producing far less oil than before we invaded and the profits are going to international oil companies and into the pockets of the warlords in Iraq. The country is divided among various sectarian factions who continue to attack and kill each other, seemingly at will and with no limits. The only military forces except the United States are private, sectarian militias, controlled for the most part by religious fanatics. The real leaders in most of the country are provincial warlords and religious leasders, holding a grip on their small portion of the real estate and the people who live there. The country's infrastructure is in a shambles and they cannot even depend on adequate power in the capital. The people fear leaving their homes and businesses are closing. In many parts of the country, the local religious leaders are imposing extreme Muslim religious and cultural practices, even forcing wiomen to wear the Burkha and not allowing females to attend school. Iran's power and influence in the region is growing as it is increasingly seen as the only country that will stand up to the Western invaders. The US's presence and actions in Iraq are being increasingly used to recruit young men and women into worldwide terrorist orgainzations to attack the West. No, Isaac, I do not see how it would be much worse if we left. In fact, if we did, maybe, just maybe, the Iraqis would step forward and actually take some responsibility for their own country and deal with the issues they need to deal with. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Kincaid | May 31 2006, 09:00 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I imagine that in 1975 Rick could not imagine things could get worse in Cambodia, either. For a scholar, he has a very limited imagination. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Rick Zimmer | May 31 2006, 09:04 AM Post #6 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Were we at war in Cambodia, Kinc? Outside of some illegal incursions, I don't recall the US having any responsibility there. I do recall people saying that if we left Vietnam, things would get much worse. We left, the Communists did their thing -- which was not always good -- and then within a year or so the country, after 30 years of war against the French and then the US, finally settled and has been settled ever since. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Kincaid | May 31 2006, 09:13 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You have a point. The Vietnamese stepped in and fixed Cambodia, such as it is. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Nina | May 31 2006, 09:16 AM Post #8 |
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Senior Carp
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Too little, hopefully not too late. |
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| tcmod | May 31 2006, 09:18 AM Post #9 |
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Senior Carp
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I am afraid that at this point I wish we would just leave. The US is like a gambler that has lost his a$$ at the blackjack table but just can't stop until there is nothing left. I just don't understand how we are going to pay for this war..social security...all of the responsibilities the gov't feels it needs to offer. Getting very nervous about this debt of ours. |
| Dead girls don't say no, but you still have to buy them flowers | |
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| Larry | May 31 2006, 09:21 AM Post #10 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Rick, I'll bet you're one of those people who watch as hundreds of people a day go into grocery stores and haul stuff out by the cartloads, and sits in amazement over why the store never gets empty...... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| The 89th Key | May 31 2006, 09:49 AM Post #11 |
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Well as you said, leaving prematurely would be leaving before the job is done, before the country is secure and can handle itself. We undertook a big mission to remove saddam and his government from Iraq, and it was said before and is said now, will take a long time to get the country on its own feet again. Every day we make strides toward that goal, elections, military and police training, etc. It wasn't ever going to be a perfect situation, and we have encountered far more insurgent opposition than anticipated. That said, Rick wants us to leave now. Even Quirt and John, very smart liberal members here, who disagreed with the war in the beginning, recognize that it would be a very bad thing if we cut and run, like Rick suggests. |
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| Larry | May 31 2006, 10:10 AM Post #12 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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It's useless to even try to have a rational discussion on this topic with Rick. He starts every single one of his diatribes with false premises and outright opposite of the truth statements, and then builds from there. No amount of evidence to the contrary sways him one inch from his position. His feet are stuck in concrete, and he isn't listening. He's merely propagandizing. He isn't interested in reality, only in pushing his view. And as has been shown over and over again to the point of ridiculousness, he's as dead wrong now as he has been from the beginning. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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