| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Solzhenitsyn Speaks Out; ...Against Western Human Rights... | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 30 2006, 11:49 AM (414 Views) | |
| AlbertaCrude | May 30 2006, 11:49 AM Post #1 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Norms: Solzhenitsyn Joins in Criticism of Western Human Rights Norms 30.05.2006 MosNews.com Russian writer Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, for many years a dissident against Soviet communism, has defended an Orthodox church-sponsored document calling for a new concept of human rights to counter Western notions of freedom, which are said to lack “moral norms”, Ecumenical News International reports. “Unlimited human rights are what our cave-dwelling ancestor already had — nothing prevented him from depriving his neighbor of prey or finishing him off with a cudgel,” Solzhenitsyn told the Moskovskiye Novosti weekly newspaper. “Even to call for self-restraint was considered ridiculous and funny. However, it is only self-restraint that offers a moral and reliable way out of any conflict.” The 87-year-old writer was reacting to a “Declaration on Human Rights and Dignity” adopted by the tenth World Russian People’s Council, which met at Moscow’s Christ the Savior basilica from 4 to 6 April and was chaired by Orthodox Patriarch Alexiy II of Moscow. The document said the world faced “a conflict between civilizations with different understandings of the human being”. It stated that it was unacceptable to use human rights “to legitimize behavior condemned by both traditional morality and historical religions”. Solzhenitsyn said the director of the Moscow Patriarchate’s department for external church relations, Metropolitan Kirill, had been right to assert that personal freedoms should not “threaten the fatherland” or be used to “insult religious and national feelings”. He added, “If Russia were to join the North Atlantic Alliance, which is engaged in propaganda and forcibly inculcating the ideology and practices of today’s Western democracy in various parts of the planet, it would lead not to an expansion, but to a decline of Christian civilization.” The human rights declaration said Russians rejected “the policy of double standards with regard to human rights,” as well as “attempts to use them for imposing a particular socio-political system.” Solzhenitsyn won the Nobel Prize in literature in 1970. His books include “The Gulag Archipelago” a factual account of Stalin’s terror for which he was exiled to the West in 1974. He returned to Russia in 1994 after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and has often defended Orthodox tradition against Western popular culture. |
![]() |
|
| Nina | May 30 2006, 11:53 AM Post #2 |
|
Senior Carp
|
Off topic, I know, but since when is Russia not Western? Orthodoxy is an Eastern European religion, but I never considered it to be non-Western. It's European in its roots. Alberta Crude, help! |
![]() |
|
| Mark | May 30 2006, 12:00 PM Post #3 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
The decline of Christian civilization? I have never heard civilization referred to in that way. |
|
___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | May 30 2006, 12:05 PM Post #4 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
While Russians and Ukrainians consider themelves Europeans, they do not consider themselves to be *Western*. The attack here is aimed at the norms of Western liberalism and human rights organizations such as the ALCU. ...hey, it was big surprise to everyone except Andropov and Suslov back in the 70's to discover that the only things the exiled Solzhenitsyn despised more than Russian Marxism-Leninism was American republicanism and European social liberalism. |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | May 30 2006, 12:11 PM Post #5 |
|
MAMIL
|
He's always liked complaining. I never managed to finish any of his books, as I found them so depressing. They still lie unfinished somewhere at the back of my parents dining room bookshelf. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | May 30 2006, 12:16 PM Post #6 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
The phrase “threaten the fatherland” seems an unfortunate choice of words. Otherwise, he makes some good points. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | May 30 2006, 12:26 PM Post #7 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
JB it's probably a direct translation of the word родина (rodina) which is normally translated as Motherland being that it is a feminine noun in Russian. It is a very common for Russians to refer to Russia as the Motherland when they want to describe the people, culture, land and state as one. It is a subtlety of the language that does not translate well into English. |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | May 30 2006, 12:32 PM Post #8 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
I was actually quite familiar with the Russian use of "Motherland" having studied Russian history while in college. It is a very deeply felt thing for the Russian people as I understand it and its meaning transcends a simple concatenation of "mother" and "land". Another term I was told does not translate well is Prostor. I understand it to mean an unending featureless vastness but I suppose a familiarity with the Russian landscape would help to fully convey its meaning. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| Rick Zimmer | May 30 2006, 12:38 PM Post #9 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
I'd like to see more of this declaration and what it is really talking about. John Paul II often was critical of rampant materialism and the lust for money and power that he believed has harmed the human spirit and which dehumanizes people in Western cultures. I think there is great merit to his argument. Is this what the Orthodox are condemning and Solzenitsyn is agreeing to? Or are the Orthodox going further and perhaps attacking more fundamental rights -- such as the right of conscience, the right of free speech, the right of free movement, etc. Or, are they going even further and trying to impose Orthodox morals on a pluralistic and secular society? Both the Orthodox Churches and Solzenitsyn have earned the right to be listened to and taken seriously. But this does not mean they are right or that their view should prevail. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | May 30 2006, 01:08 PM Post #10 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Probably something like that.
And probably something like that too. When Solzhenitsyn returned to Russia in the 90's from exile, he had a weekly half hour television show- a bit like the Archbishop Sheen TV sermons I remember as a kid. On these Solzhenitsyn would pontificate on the superiority of the Russian Mir and against the ills of crass materialism and moral depravity that had engulfed Russia and *The West*. At first all Russians gathered round their TV sets to listen but after the first year and bit viewers became fewer and fewer. Nobody could relate to what to he was talking about and felt that he was a somewhat reactionary anachronism from the time of Nicholas I or Alexander III. Indeed, it was for that reason that Andropov then Head of the KGB sent Solzhenitsyn into exile back in the 70's. Andropov and the Soviet gerontocracy of the day realized that in Western exile Solzhenitsyn was absolutely harmless outside of the USSR. While Andrei Sakharov was one with what we call open and liberal democracy, Solzehintsyn was cut of an entirely different cloth. He was in every sense a true Great Russian. No one in the West would understand what he was talking about or represented and he would immediately choose to live in seclusion and spurn any attempts from Western politicians or anti-Soviet emigres to become politically active against the USSR. They were right. Solzhenitsyn showed nothing but contempt towards the West and only made public appearances and statements when the conditions of his Harvard stipend had to be met. Solzhenitsyn is the personification of Churchill's famous quotation that "Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma". More from Solzhenitsyn: Former western anti-communist hero Solzhenitsyn says NATO encircling Russia |
![]() |
|
| iainhp | May 30 2006, 03:48 PM Post #11 |
|
Middle Aged Carp
|
Why do you believe this is only in Western cultures? |
![]() |
|
| Rick Zimmer | May 30 2006, 04:25 PM Post #12 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
I don't. I used the west only because that was the topic of the comments. Actually, JPII's criticism was more aimed at capitalism rather than the West. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | May 30 2006, 06:22 PM Post #13 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
It seems to be aimed more at materialism which is not necessarily the same as capitalism. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | May 30 2006, 08:43 PM Post #14 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Rick is right about JP2's criticisms of capitalism, which were surpressed in the translation of Centesumus Annus by certain leading Catholic political conservatives. In the authentic translation, he first reminded the reader of the concerns of Leo XII in Rerum Novarum of the contemporaneous exploitation of the worker in the industrial age of capitalist development:
Later on, after his examination of the failings of socialism he issued stern words against continuing problems of capitalism, particular in the global economy:
|
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." Learn More · Sign-up Now |
|
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |








12:42 AM Jul 11