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The Gay Agenda; Freedom for all?
Topic Started: May 30 2006, 11:39 AM (3,845 Views)
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
QuirtEvans
Jun 1 2006, 05:15 PM
Quote:
 
If heteros figure marriage can only be between a man and woman thety are free to try to file a patent on the design and process of the product known as marriage.


Nah, they are trying the time-honored technique of squelching competing products by passing laws against them.

I always suspected that deep down they were against free enterprise and NAFTA
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FrankM
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Senior Carp
Rick, Bernard and Jeffrey,

I was in the middle of writing a reply to your posts when I got diverted. I'm still diverted so I have to keep this brief. (Did I just hear a collective sigh of relief? :cool: )

In my experience, there are many who still retain the notion that homosexuality is a "disease" spread from homosexual adults to children in early puberty. This viewpoint cannot begin to entertain any notion of parity for homosexual marriages. I am not referring to those whose viewpoint is grounded in some rigid fundamentalist religious tenet but rather those who've absorbed this viewpoint from legacy social attitudes.

However, it is a revelation to see their reaction when you show them hard evidence of scientific work that strongly indicates that homosexuality is determined long before puberty, perhaps even in conception or at least during gestation in the womb. The light goes on that maybe homosexuality is not some contagious sexual "disease" after all but just a particular range within a natural continuum of sexual orientations. By scientific work I mean studies emphasizing physiological rather than psychological explanations or anecdotal sociological evidence.

This enables them to see adult homosexual relationships as not a "dirty" activity symptomatic of a degenerate society but rather as simply a normal emotional transaction between two consenting adults. More importantly, they become open to appreciating that the love between these two consenting adults can be as valid, deep and natural as for any heterosexual couple.

Rick and Jeffrey, both of you see the "obvious" because you're not entrapped into seeing what you believe. I was fortunate to have a mother who saw the obvious while working for a Pediatrician and I well remember conversations between her and my father where she was convinced gay people were born that way. If you're objective, it is obvious. I'm claiming that the group I cited above is both a substantial fraction of our society and, most importantly, can be reached in the manner I've described. With some it takes little more than some concrete scientific evidence to achieve movement in their perspective. Others demand more extensive scientific proof but at least they aren't closed to the possibility like most if not all religious fundamentalists.

Oops, that wasn't as brief as intended. :yawn:
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FrankM
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Senior Carp
AlbertaCrude
Jun 1 2006, 08:10 PM
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 04:28 PM
BTW, my IDIOT comment was directed at certain non-gays here who purport to argue constructively for gay rights. If I were gay, I'd hope they were on the side of the opposition. I just have a lot fun poking fun at some heteros who figure marriage is patented between a man and woman. I've told them before to try to file a patent and see if sticks.

Frankie baby, where I live we have had legal gay marriage for pretty near a year. The sun still rises and sets as before, the cows still milk, no one has vandalised our home while my wife and I are at work and my dog continues to cock her leg to pee. Life as I see it has not changed. If heteros figure marriage can only be between a man and woman thety are free to try to file a patent on the design and process of the product known as marriage.

much appreciate your post, including your perceptive editing of my comment. :wink:
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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FrankM
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Senior Carp
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:
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LadyElton
Fulla-Carp
I'd have no problem moving out of the country. :shrug:
Hilary aka LadyElton
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Jeffrey
Senior Carp
Jolly: "bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?"

I got nothin against beer-swillin'. No need to mix that adjective in with the rest.
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:13 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm toungue-in-cheek.

Somewhat.

I actually think the amendment thing may have a bit of a chance. The Dems want to retake the house so bad that they are lining up for religion lessons - no bull.

If you want bonafides with the Zell Miller wing of the Dem party, what better way to kick an amendment out that you think can't get the required ratification majority?

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
The Gay Agenda is just that...a fervent focused minority.

Google up some of the stuff on gay rights or gay marriage sometime. There are 20 articles slamming every place that posts even a whiff of deviance from the Gay Agenda.

Yet...when the voters speak, the Gay Agenda does not win.

Times are good. These are the best of times to advance a radical change in society.

And they still can't get it done.

Wonder what will happen when times get bad...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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LadyElton
Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:29 PM
The Gay Agenda is just that...a fervent focused minority.

Google up some of the stuff on gay rights or gay marriage sometime. There are 20 articles slamming every place that posts even a whiff of deviance from the Gay Agenda.

Yet...when the voters speak, the Gay Agenda does not win.

Times are good. These are the best of times to advance a radical change in society.

And they still can't get it done.

Wonder what will happen when times get bad...

Yeah, it's just like the nigger agenda of the 50s and 60s. :rolleyes2: Gods forbid we don't like being treated like 2nd-class citizens.

Where's John Hinkley when you need him?
Hilary aka LadyElton
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
LadyElton
Jun 1 2006, 09:35 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:29 PM
The Gay Agenda is just that...a fervent focused minority.

Google up some of the stuff on gay rights or gay marriage sometime. There are 20 articles slamming every place that posts even a whiff of deviance from the Gay Agenda.

Yet...when the voters speak, the Gay Agenda does not win.

Times are good. These are the best of times to advance a radical change in society.

And they still can't get it done.

Wonder what will happen when times get bad...

Yeah, it's just like the nigger agenda of the 50s and 60s. :rolleyes2: Gods forbid we don't like being treated like 2nd-class citizens.

Where's John Hinkley when you need him?

Richard Pryor once said he looked in the mirror every morning and chanted "nigger, nigger, nigger" to make his teeth whiter.

Does that also work for you?


Fact is, if we go back to the original topic starter, written by a black woman, and also take into account that the black community is not totally over-joyed at the Gay Community for comparing their struggle to the Gay Agenda...well, you might want to leave the blacks out of this, donchya think?

They ain't fer ya.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
Some idiot wrote:
Quote:
 
Where's John Hinkley when you need him?


May I take that as a threat?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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FrankM
Member Avatar
Senior Carp
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:26 PM
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:13 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm toungue-in-cheek.

Somewhat.

I actually think the amendment thing may have a bit of a chance. The Dems want to retake the house so bad that they are lining up for religion lessons - no bull.

If you want bonafides with the Zell Miller wing of the Dem party, what better way to kick an amendment out that you think can't get the required ratification majority?

Sounds like an awfully risky gambit to me. But, being anything but a politician, what do i know? :shrug:

BTW, as i'm sure you know, there are no words directly attributed to Jesus that explicitly condemn homosexuality. In sharp contrast, there are several statements about marriage by Jesus which very clearly condemn divorce.

So, to be consistent, I'd think you'd advocate an amendment making divorce illegal in all states. Alternatively, you could remain consistent with marriage laws being state determined, including the issue of the legality of gay marriage as well as divorce, and so not advocate for the anti-gay marriage amendment.

OK, time to call it a night for me.
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LadyElton
Fulla-Carp
I think I'm realizing some of the causes of my suicidal tendencies and being a drunk.
Hilary aka LadyElton
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QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:26 PM
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:13 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm toungue-in-cheek.

Somewhat.

I actually think the amendment thing may have a bit of a chance. The Dems want to retake the house so bad that they are lining up for religion lessons - no bull.

If you want bonafides with the Zell Miller wing of the Dem party, what better way to kick an amendment out that you think can't get the required ratification majority?

From what I hear, the amendment doesn't have the votes in the Senate.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
And, like the Clinton impeachment, what better way for the House to grandstand by bringing this controversial vote when it can't pass the Senate? No bad law gets passed, but the reps all get credit from the folks back home for 'doing what we sent you for'.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Jun 2 2006, 06:42 AM
And, like the Clinton impeachment, what better way for the House to grandstand by bringing this controversial vote when it can't pass the Senate? No bad law gets passed, but the reps all get credit from the folks back home for 'doing what we sent you for'.

And the voters all forget that they don't like Bush for a few weeks, which may be the real purpose of the whole circus.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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The 89th Key
Member Avatar

Let the vote move to the states, along with abortion.

Some of the blue states will legalize both - using "privacy" and "civil rights" to justify everything and anything that a minority can parade about.

I, on the other hand, will live in a red state, one of I guess 40 states that will limit or ban abortions, gay marriage, and other similar activities.

Then, we'll have a nice crystal clear idea of what "results" from such legislation. :yes:
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Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 

BTW, my IDIOT comment was directed at certain non-gays here who purport to argue constructively for gay rights. If I were gay, I'd hope they were on the side of the opposition.


But how can it be better to say nothing and lett the anti-gay attitudes and their incoherent rationalisations remain unchallenged?
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:51 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:26 PM
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:13 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm toungue-in-cheek.

Somewhat.

I actually think the amendment thing may have a bit of a chance. The Dems want to retake the house so bad that they are lining up for religion lessons - no bull.

If you want bonafides with the Zell Miller wing of the Dem party, what better way to kick an amendment out that you think can't get the required ratification majority?

Sounds like an awfully risky gambit to me. But, being anything but a politician, what do i know? :shrug:

BTW, as i'm sure you know, there are no words directly attributed to Jesus that explicitly condemn homosexuality. In sharp contrast, there are several statements about marriage by Jesus which very clearly condemn divorce.

So, to be consistent, I'd think you'd advocate an amendment making divorce illegal in all states. Alternatively, you could remain consistent with marriage laws being state determined, including the issue of the legality of gay marriage as well as divorce, and so not advocate for the anti-gay marriage amendment.

OK, time to call it a night for me.

You need to read more of my stuff on divorce.

I wouldn't make it illegal, but it would be a more rare event than it is today, because I also believe that high divorce rates are bad for society. I'm a Covenant Marriage kind of guy...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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The 89th Key
Member Avatar

Moonbat
Jun 2 2006, 09:59 AM
Quote:
 

BTW, my IDIOT comment was directed at certain non-gays here who purport to argue constructively for gay rights. If I were gay, I'd hope they were on the side of the opposition.


But how can it be better to say nothing and lett the anti-gay attitudes and their incoherent rationalisations remain unchallenged?

The feeling is mutual. ;) :hug: :D
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
LadyElton
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
I think I'm realizing some of the causes of my suicidal tendencies and being a drunk.

Nope, you're actually a pretty nice person if you don't let your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass.

Something that Frank said resonates well, which is that the best tactic for the gay community is empirical data and facts. You are going to have to find a society that you can data-mine to support your position. Currently, that might be the Scandanavian countries, but their marital numbers don't look too spiffy.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Jun 2 2006, 01:18 AM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 10:26 PM
FrankM
Jun 1 2006, 09:13 PM
Jolly
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
Y'all havin' fun yet?

At the expense of all us bigoted, beer-swillin', rebel flag wavin' good 'ol boys?

Therein lies your problem gentlemen...in a pure pragmatic sense, the guys who have managed to put the anti-gay marriage referendums on the ballots are batting a pretty decent average.

The only true success you can point to is in the judicial realm.

Now, tell me this...if a constitutional amendment comes out of Congress this summer (and it might), what happens if it is ratified?

Then I guess the entire nation has become a bunch of good 'ol boys....

Not in the least. History is replete with examples of how a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority that doesn't appreciate how readily a fervent focused minority can defeat a disorganized majority.

But the point is moot because the administration knows it would be political suicide in November to pursue the amendment.

Now cut the defensive nonsense here and go up and post your picture so we can hang you in accurate effigy! :biggrin:

Oh, I'm toungue-in-cheek.

Somewhat.

I actually think the amendment thing may have a bit of a chance. The Dems want to retake the house so bad that they are lining up for religion lessons - no bull.

If you want bonafides with the Zell Miller wing of the Dem party, what better way to kick an amendment out that you think can't get the required ratification majority?

From what I hear, the amendment doesn't have the votes in the Senate.

You may be right, but I think their may be a few swing votes still out there.

As I said, down here they are beating Landreau with a stick on a daily basis.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Jun 2 2006, 06:05 AM
LadyElton
Jun 1 2006, 09:52 PM
I think I'm realizing some of the causes of my suicidal tendencies and being a drunk.

Nope, you're actually a pretty nice person if you don't let your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird ass.

Something that Frank said resonates well, which is that the best tactic for the gay community is empirical data and facts. You are going to have to find a society that you can data-mine to support your position. Currently, that might be the Scandanavian countries, but their marital numbers don't look too spiffy.

If the issue were simply using data to prove a point, heterosexual marriage would have fallen into disfavor long ago.

Frank's point is well taken when speakng of people who are simply ignorant and fearful and do not understand.

His tactic of logic does not work for those whose position is not based on logic or even based on consistency of Scriptual interpretation any more than logic worked on those who opposed civil rights for blacks. Those who publicly lead the debate against the gay community generally come from this group. Their tactics do not use logic, either. Primarily it uses fear.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 

The feeling is mutual.   


:hug: :wave2:
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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