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Bush or Clinton? - Mirror Mirror On The Wall; Who's the fairest of them all?
Topic Started: May 13 2006, 08:10 AM (372 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/12/bus...poll/index.html
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George K
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:popcorn:
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John D'Oh
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This article is clearly biased, attempting to compare Bush to one of America's most popular presidents. What next, a comparison to FDR?

:leaving:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
It is astonishing anyone on this forum still supports Bush.
What's wrong with them?

snip -
Respondents favored Clinton by greater than 2-to-1 margins when asked who did a better job at handling the economy (63 percent Clinton, 26 percent Bush) and solving the problems of ordinary Americans (62 percent Clinton, 25 percent Bush).

On foreign affairs, the margin was 56 percent to 32 percent in Clinton's favor; on taxes, it was 51 percent to 35 percent for Clinton; and on handling natural disasters, it was 51 percent to 30 percent, also favoring Clinton.

Moreover, 59 percent said Bush has done more to divide the country, while only 27 percent said Clinton had.

When asked which man was more honest as president, poll respondents were more evenly divided, with the numbers -- 46 percent Clinton to 41 percent Bush -- falling within the poll's margin of error. The same was true for a question on handling national security: 46 percent said Clinton performed better; 42 percent picked Bush.
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
While such comparisons are interesting and certainly provide a level of satisfaction, I am far more encouraged by the polls focused on Bush alone and the rejection of his Presidency by the American people.

The American people are not stupid. It may take them a while to shift through the propoganda bull **** and to wake up to what is happening, but they eventually show a great deal of insight.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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JBryan
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That's right. That is why they will finally reject the propaganda foisted upon them by the media and their fellow travelers the anti-war left.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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kenny
May 13 2006, 12:43 PM
It is astonishing anyone on this forum still supports Bush.
What's wrong with them?

snip -
Respondents favored Clinton by greater than 2-to-1 margins when asked who did a better job at handling the economy (63 percent Clinton, 26 percent Bush) and solving the problems of ordinary Americans (62 percent Clinton, 25 percent Bush).

On foreign affairs, the margin was 56 percent to 32 percent in Clinton's favor; on taxes, it was 51 percent to 35 percent for Clinton; and on handling natural disasters, it was 51 percent to 30 percent, also favoring Clinton.

Moreover, 59 percent said Bush has done more to divide the country, while only 27 percent said Clinton had.

When asked which man was more honest as president, poll respondents were more evenly divided, with the numbers -- 46 percent Clinton to 41 percent Bush -- falling within the poll's margin of error. The same was true for a question on handling national security: 46 percent said Clinton performed better; 42 percent picked Bush.

Kenny, what's sad is that you actually believe a poll that has more people thinking Clinton was more honest. He lied to our faces, and admitted it a few days later....yet they think he's more honest?

PS. I'm actually really glad I'm supporting Bush. Clinton didn't do anything to stop terrorists and we were hit on 9/11. Yeah, good job Clinton. :thumb: Clinton was also lucky enough to be prez when the dot com happened, and he also was leaving right when the dot com busted. Yet with a lagging stock market, unstable market, and terrorist attacks...Bush has helped keep unemployment at 4.7%.
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George K
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Finally
A record to be proud of:

RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

ARKANSAS ALTZHEIMER'S

Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar.

Bill Kennedy 116
Harold Ickes 148
Ricki Seidman 160
Bruce Lindsey 161
Bill Burton 191
Mark Gearan 221
Mack McLarty 233
Neil Egglseston 250
Hillary Clinton 250
John Podesta 264
Jennifer O'Connor 343
Dwight Holton 348
Patsy Thomasson 420
Jeff Eller 697

Portions of President Clinton's Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

I don't remember - 71
I don't know - 62
I'm not sure - 17
I have no idea - 10
I don't believe so - 9
I don't recall - 8
I don't think so - 8
I don't have any specific recollection - 6
I have no recollection - 4
Not to my knowledge - 4
I just don't remember - 4
I don't believe - 4
I have no specific recollection - 3
I might have - 3
I don't have any recollection of that - 2 I don't have a specific memory - 2
I don't have any memory of that - 2
I just can't say - 2
I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
I don't have any idea - 2
Not that I recall - 2
I don't believe I did - 2
I can't remember - 2
I can't say - 2
I do not remember doing so - 2
Not that I remember - 2
I'm not aware - 1
I honestly don't know - 1
I don't believe that I did - 1
I'm fairly sure - 1
I have no other recollection - 1
I'm not positive - 1
I certainly don't think so - 1
I don't really remember - 1
I would have no way of remembering that - 1
That's what I believe happened - 1
To my knowledge, no - 1
To the best of my knowledge - 1
To the best of my memory - 1
I honestly don't recall - 1
I honestly don't remember - 1
That's all I know - 1
I don't have an independent recollection of that - 1
I don't actually have an independent memory of that - 1
As far as I know - 1
I don't believe I ever did that - 1
That's all I know about that - 1
I'm just not sure - 1
Nothing that I remember - 1
I simply don't know - 1
I would have no idea - 1
I don't know anything about that - 1
I don't have any direct knowledge of that - 1
I just don't know - 1
I really don't know - 1
I can't deny that, I just -- I have no memory of that at all - 1


But then, don't confuse me with facts, after all, he can't hurt me anymore.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I'm sure if we saw transcripts of their grand jury testimony, neither Scooter nor Karl ever said any of those things, or anything like it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Quote:
 
I'm sure if we saw transcripts of their grand jury testimony, neither Scooter nor Karl ever said any of those things, or anything like


'twill be interesting. No?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Billy-Bob certainly wasn't the first president to claim memory loss. Old Ronnie Raygun practically made a career out of it. Granted, he might have actually been suffering from dementia for half of his second term, but nobody could actually be sure.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
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Posted Image
I know nuh-zing!!!
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Rick Zimmer
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George K
May 13 2006, 02:34 PM
A record to be proud of:

RECORDS SET

etc.

Maybe we should just allocate $75 million dollars of taxpayer money and tens of millions of dollars of hate-filled private vigilante money doing their own investigation and then feeding it to the Feds and see what we get. Somehow, I doubt Bush and his buddies would come out very well.

What do you think we'd really find out about no-bid contracts, manipulation of intelligence, lobbyists wreigint laws and bribing politicians, manipulations of voting rolls and secret meetings in the White House to forge energy and other policie if those involved were being dogged by a criminal, not political, investigation with a prosecutor having complete access to the FBI, the full Justice Department and the subpoena powers of a grand jury?

But really guys, you have to get off this Clinton bit. It is getting very old.

Let's just leave it at the reality -- Americans liked, respected and supported Clinton and they dislike, distrust and reject Bush.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
May 13 2006, 10:21 PM

But really guys, you have to get off this Clinton bit.  It is getting very old.

Let's just leave it at the reality -- Americans liked, respected and supported Clinton and they dislike, distrust and reject Bush.

How about a little bet, Rick?

A bottle of premium Scotch that the collective number of "Clinton Bashing" threads started by any three people on the board of your choice is less than the number of "Bush Bashing" threads that you started?

Then maybe we can get some perspective on what "is getting very old."

Just reply with the three people you want considered.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Rick Zimmer
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ivorythumper
May 13 2006, 10:10 PM
Rick Zimmer
May 13 2006, 10:21 PM

But really guys, you have to get off this Clinton bit.  It is getting very old.

Let's just leave it at the reality -- Americans liked, respected and supported Clinton and they dislike, distrust and reject Bush.

How about a little bet, Rick?

A bottle of premium Scotch that the collective number of "Clinton Bashing" threads started by any three people on the board of your choice is less than the number of "Bush Bashing" threads that you started?

Then maybe we can get some perspective on what "is getting very old."

Just reply with the three people you want considered.

Silly thumper.

That's like comparing how many positive Bush threads have been started versus positive Clinton threads.

Bush is President. Of course the majority of political threads are going to be about him.

Clinton has not been president for 6 years, but you guys still want to bring him out every chance you get when you don't know how to justify Bush's actions.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
May 13 2006, 11:31 PM
ivorythumper
May 13 2006, 10:10 PM
Rick Zimmer
May 13 2006, 10:21 PM

But really guys, you have to get off this Clinton bit.  It is getting very old.

Let's just leave it at the reality -- Americans liked, respected and supported Clinton and they dislike, distrust and reject Bush.

How about a little bet, Rick?

A bottle of premium Scotch that the collective number of "Clinton Bashing" threads started by any three people on the board of your choice is less than the number of "Bush Bashing" threads that you started?

Then maybe we can get some perspective on what "is getting very old."

Just reply with the three people you want considered.

Silly thumper.

That's like comparing how many positive Bush threads have been started versus positive Clinton threads.

Bush is President. Of course the majority of political threads are going to be about him.

Clinton has not been president for 6 years, but you guys still want to bring him out every chance you get when you don't know how to justify Bush's actions.

As I figured....

Who is it who wanted the comparison with Clinton? The liberals. And here you are blaming the conservatives for showing counter evidence to a thread started that claimed Clinton was a better president and even more honest (!) than Bush. A man who lied under oath!

Same old, same old, Rick. That's also getting old.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Let's just leave it at the reality -- Americans liked, respected and supported Clinton and they dislike, distrust and reject Bush.


Anyone who can make that statement with a straight face, much less actually believe it, is seriously in need of professional help.

Do you know why Bush is down in the polls, Rick? Do you even have a clue? It isn't because people dislike him, they like him just fine. It isn't because they distrust him - in fact, the majority of Americans trust him far more than they ever trusted Clinton, since you've brought him into this little comparison. Also, and this is the big one - the majority of Americans haven't rejected him. But they *are* rejecting something. You don't have a freaking clue just what that is, do you? Let me tell you.

The reason Bush's poll numbers are down is because Conservatives, his base, are getting frustrated. Why? Because he was elected to undo the damage done by you liberal leftists, and in several areas, he isn't doing it. Far from your foggy little dreamworld where the majority don't like him because he isn't a democrat doing democrat things, the majority are frustrated because he isn't *undoing* democrat things.

The illegal alien issue didn't just pop up in the last couple of years. A clear majority of Americans want something done to stop the flow of illegal aliens coming in. So far, he has pandered to the left, and gone soft. Most Americans, whether you want to believe it or not Rick, want him to grow a set of balls and tell you people who support them to get your silly asses out of the way, and build a wall to keep them out, or put the military along the border to keep them out. He hasn't, and his base is upset about it, as well as many average democrats.

Harry Truman's poll numbers were even lower than Bush's at one point. All Bush has to do is start standing up for the conservative point of view the way those who elected him expect him to do, and you'll see a sea change in his poll numbers. Americans are rejecting what they see as a reluctance on his part to reject *your* views. You are completely off the ranch - he walks a little too softly when it comes to handling people like you - he gives you credibility you don't deserve by not just telling leftist pacifist morons to go to hell. Americans, by and large, get pissed off at that.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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Larry
May 14 2006, 07:00 AM

The reason Bush's poll numbers are down is because Conservatives, his base, are getting frustrated. Why? Because he was elected to undo the damage done by you liberal leftists, and in several areas, he isn't doing it. Far from your foggy little dreamworld where the majority don't like him because he isn't a democrat doing democrat things, the majority are frustrated because he isn't *undoing* democrat things.

I think Bush is unpopular because Iraq is dragging on longer than people would like, there appears to quite a lot of sleaze associated with his administration, and because he doesn't seem to be doing much of anything about a number of issues.

To be fair to Bush, Iraq was always going to be a very difficult proposition to resolve, and the electorate is very impatient. The rest of the criticism is just politics. Politicians never get a whole lot done, they're too busy being politicians, and sleaze, well, it's the old horse and carriage job in Washington.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Here's a little proof to back up my statements, Rick - the barrage of media misinformation dealing with the issue of phone records has had an affect on Bush's poll numbers. In the polls taken *after* Americans found out about the phone records thing, Bush's approval rating went up by 6 points. Now - once Americans see him putting the military on the border, his approval numbers will shoot up again.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
May 14 2006, 05:16 AM
Larry
May 14 2006, 07:00 AM

The reason Bush's poll numbers are down is because Conservatives, his base, are getting frustrated. Why? Because he was elected to undo the damage done by you liberal leftists, and in several areas, he isn't doing it. Far from your foggy little dreamworld where the majority don't like him because he isn't a democrat doing democrat things, the majority are frustrated because he isn't *undoing* democrat things.

I think Bush is unpopular because Iraq is dragging on longer than people would like, there appears to quite a lot of sleaze associated with his administration, and because he doesn't seem to be doing much of anything about a number of issues.

To be fair to Bush, Iraq was always going to be a very difficult proposition to resolve, and the electorate is very impatient. The rest of the criticism is just politics. Politicians never get a whole lot done, they're too busy being politicians, and sleaze, well, it's the old horse and carriage job in Washington.

Iraq is not the problem with his base.

His problems with his base are some fiscal issues, and as Larry pointed out, immigration issues.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
May 14 2006, 07:36 AM

Iraq is not the problem with his base.

His problems with his base are some fiscal issues, and as Larry pointed out, immigration issues.

As a wild guestimate, could we put the conservative base at 33%, the liberal base at 33%, and the swingers at 33%? I'm just pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they're probably not that unreasonable. The liberal base aren't going to vote for Bush if he finds a cure for cancer, so they're essentially irrelevent to the discussion. The 33% conservative base like what he's doing in Iraq, but don't like his spending and ineffectiveness in controlling immigration. That leaves the swingers who don't like Iraq and corruption.

I admit I have absolutely no scientific basis for this analysis, but it feels about right to me.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
What corruption would that be?
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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Larry
May 14 2006, 07:54 AM
What corruption would that be?

All the nonsense about Libby and Karl Rove, Halliburton in Iraq, Tom Delay, Dusty Foggo, phone tapping, blah blah blah.

Bear in mind I'm not saying that the Bush administration contains any more corruption than a typical 2nd term president, I don't really care that much about any alleged corruption since I believe that they're all the same anyway. What is important is the public perception, and to my eyes at least it's not that great at the moment.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Edit: Someone else said (better, of course) what I was going to say. I'm an idiot. :rolleyes:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
May 14 2006, 05:50 AM
Jolly
May 14 2006, 07:36 AM

Iraq is not the problem with his base.

His problems with his base are some fiscal issues, and as Larry pointed out, immigration issues.

As a wild guestimate, could we put the conservative base at 33%, the liberal base at 33%, and the swingers at 33%? I'm just pulling these numbers out of thin air, but they're probably not that unreasonable. The liberal base aren't going to vote for Bush if he finds a cure for cancer, so they're essentially irrelevent to the discussion. The 33% conservative base like what he's doing in Iraq, but don't like his spending and ineffectiveness in controlling immigration. That leaves the swingers who don't like Iraq and corruption.

I admit I have absolutely no scientific basis for this analysis, but it feels about right to me.

If I remember Gallup's numbers from the last election, it's about 35% conservative, 20% liberal.

The "swingers" mostly tend to swing one way, they tend not to oscillate. There is only about a 15% portion of the electorate which is truly courtable.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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