Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
An Interesting Dilemma; What Would You Do?
Topic Started: May 9 2006, 02:41 PM (614 Views)
Rick Zimmer
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
A city in Northern California has an interesting discrimination/sexual harassment dilemma. If you were the city management, what would you do?

Here's the dilemma.

The Senior Planner in the Planning Department is openly gay. On his desk is a picture of himself and his partner -- typical picture that any straight person might have of him/herself and his/her spouse. Nothing overtly objectionable to it.

An employee from another department believes that homosexuality is morally wrong and against God's law. She views the Senior Planner's picture as a sexual statement of depravity and has filed a sexual harassment grievance saying the picture makes her uncomfortable because of its implicit sexual content. She wants it removed pursuant to Federal and State Laws protecting her against sexual harassment.

The City Manager asked the Senior Planner to remove the picture. He has said no and has now filed a discrimination grievance claiming he is being discriminated against because of this sexual orientation.

One of the solutions that has been proposed is to require ALL pictures of spouses and children (children imply sexual activity) to be removed from everyone's desks. As you might imagine, this has been met with an outcry.

If you were the City Manager, what would you do?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bachophile
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
i would tell the employee from the other department to get a life.

and then let her take it to court.

it will be thrown out on her face as soon she tries. and she gets to foot the legal bill.

or maybe to judge judy....that would be interesting...

"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
I would tell that other employee to mind her own damn business, and to stop making an ass of herself. I would say that if the picture bothers her, it's entirely her problem. Get over it, or get out.

And I wouldn't waste a minute more of anyone's time on this. Hardly a dilemma. :rolleyes:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I agree with Bacho and Sue.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rick Zimmer
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
That's all well and good, but under both Federal and California State Law, if someone is offended by something of a sexual nature in the workplace, they have grounds for a grievance. A picture of lovers is sexual in nature.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
i would tell the employee from the other department to get a life.

and then let her take it to court.

it will be thrown out on her face as soon she tries. and she gets to foot the legal bill.


Bach has it right.

Quote:
 
A picture of lovers is sexual in nature.


Rick has it wrong.

If, as Rick says, there is nothing overtly objectionable about the picture, it's a very simple case. A VERY simple case.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
May 9 2006, 03:58 PM
That's all well and good, but under both Federal and California State Law, if someone is offended by something of a sexual nature in the workplace, they have grounds for a grievance. A picture of lovers is sexual in nature.

By any reasonable standard, a photo does not seem to be "sexual in nature" unless it is depicting some sort of intimate act. I have many photos of my brothers and me hugging, or my friends -- both male and female -- with our arms around each other, that has no implicit or explicit sexual content. A photo of you with your wife is not "sexual in nature" -- no one knows if you might not have a josephite marriage.

I still don't see the dilemma although, in our contemporary liberal society where everyone has the right to not be offended, I suspect the answer will be to remove all photos and personal artifacts from the workplace.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The 89th Key
Member Avatar

Her complaint is gay.

She needs to get a life...and that's coming from me! (someone who is against homosexuality and someone who needs to get a life :P)

One thing I've learned, or at least re-ephasized, is that before you judge someone's sexual behaviors, take a long good look at yourself first. Once you have fixed all your sins and problems, then you can judge someone else. Hint: You'll never fix all your sins or problems...but you sure as hell can work on them!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nina
Senior Carp
Angle the picture so she can't see it unless she deliberately tries to.

Reasonable accommodation for what is obviously some sort of mental handicap on her part.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Nina
May 9 2006, 04:25 PM
Angle the picture so she can't see it unless she deliberately tries to.

Reasonable accommodation for what is obviously some sort of mental handicap on her part.

Good call, Nina. A very simple and non-violent solution.
I'd want to hit her, and that probably wouldn't be so good. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
I agree, tell her to get a life then reorganize so that her current position is redundant. Offer her an early retirement package regardless of her age and a pink slip.

Throw a staff party and invite all spouses and partners.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kluurs
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Use her when you need to trade for hostages...that way she can meet new people and expand her world view.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Friday
Senior Carp
I'd fire the b$%@*!!

Seriously, it's nice to see that a lot of us agree on this one.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
The most important point here is that there is no right not to be offended.

Someone might find neckties offensive, because they represent our patriarchal culture. That doesn't make their objection to everyone wearing neckties valid.

Someone else might be offended by dresses and skirts, again because they represent our patriarchal culture. Too damn bad, all the women don't have to switch to pants to satisfy that one person.

And someone else might find a woman's perfume, or a man's cologne, offensive. Again, too damn bad. Get over yourself.

This particular situation, as described by Rick, is facially absurd. It would be laughed out of court, laughed out of the federal and state agencies that investigate employment discrimination and sexual harassment, and laughed out of the office.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
However, the question is also this: "What is sexual?" Rick has said elsewhere that a couple holding hands can be a sexual act. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I can see that someone who sees a picture of two men who happen to be lovers could see it as a sexual photo, and therefore offensive.

Having said all that, she's crazy.

And Nina, you're brilliant.

It's like the trick that opthamologists use when someone comes in complaining of "blindness." They hold a mirror in their hands and follow the patient's eyes. It's almost impossible to not look at a mirror.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pianojerome
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Sexual harassment?

He is not harassing her. She is being offended by a picture on his desk. That is not harassment.

It would be harassment if he raped her. It would be harassment if he smacked her tush every day. It would be harassment if he sent her love letters every day telling her how hot she is, despite her constant request that he cease such behavior.

Putting a picture on your desk is not harassment of another human being.
Sam
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QuirtEvans
Member Avatar
I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
She is being offended by a picture on his desk. That is not harassment.


Unfortunately, Sam, your general point isn't correct.

A picture can be harassment. If it's a picture of a naked Playboy bunny, it could create a hostile atmosphere, and that is sexual harassment, under the law. If it's a picture of two people fornicating, that could create a hostile atmosphere, and rise to the level of sexual harassment, under the law.

But an innocent picture of two men? Not a hostile atmosphere to the reasonable person. And that is the test. Not whether the particular person in question was offended, but whether a reasonable person would be offended. In many cases, they narrow that to whether a reasonable woman would be offended. But it's never whether the person in question was offended, because she might just be outside the range of normal.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LWpianistin
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
sue
May 9 2006, 02:51 PM
I would tell that other employee to mind her own damn business, and to stop making an ass of herself. I would say that if the picture bothers her, it's entirely her problem. Get over it, or get out.

And I wouldn't waste a minute more of anyone's time on this. Hardly a dilemma. :rolleyes:

well said! couldn't agree more, except to maybe have her fired for her stupidity and lack of tolerance, which i think is needed in CA....(and everywhere else, but especially there)
And how are you today?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Gosh.... does this mean I have to take that picture of one of my prize heifers off my desk?........ :D
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Larry
May 9 2006, 08:09 PM
Gosh.... does this mean I have to take that picture of one of my prize heifers off my desk?........ :D

Only if it is "sexual in nature"... :hair: :leaving:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LWpianistin
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
May 9 2006, 07:09 PM
Gosh.... does this mean I have to take that picture of one of my prize heifers off my desk?........ :D

:unsure:


:lol:
And how are you today?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JBryan
Member Avatar
I am the grey one
I believe I have an actionable complaint. The women in my office are not throwing themselves at me so their failure to recognize my obvious studliness amounts to sexual harassment. I wonder what the appropriate settlement might be. :sombrero:
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Can't he just Photoshop the pic and give his partner a Blue Rinse Do and butterfly glasses, ala Dame Edna?
Then everyone's happy. :wacko: :blink:

Posted Image

If that doesn't work, perhaps peel her skin off and rub Tabasco sauce on the bitch?

Sorry but that's as helpful as I can be, given the circumstances.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
May 9 2006, 06:51 PM
Quote:
 
She is being offended by a picture on his desk. That is not harassment.


Unfortunately, Sam, your general point isn't correct.

A picture can be harassment. If it's a picture of a naked Playboy bunny, it could create a hostile atmosphere, and that is sexual harassment, under the law. If it's a picture of two people fornicating, that could create a hostile atmosphere, and rise to the level of sexual harassment, under the law.

But an innocent picture of two men? Not a hostile atmosphere to the reasonable person. And that is the test. Not whether the particular person in question was offended, but whether a reasonable person would be offended. In many cases, they narrow that to whether a reasonable woman would be offended. But it's never whether the person in question was offended, because she might just be outside the range of normal.

:banghead: Seriously? A picture can be considered a harassment? How simple minded and petty are we? Honest to god (pls excuse the expression), but I am absolutely, completey disgusted, and revolted at the idea that we, anyone, spends money and time on a case like this. It's pathetic.

Get over it. It's a friggin' picture, don't look at it if it gives you the willies. Then go outside, see the real world, and find a real problem.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LWpianistin
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
May 9 2006, 08:34 PM
Can't he just Photoshop the pic and give his partner a Blue Rinse Do and butterfly glasses, ala Dame Edna?
Then everyone's happy. :wacko: :blink:

Posted Image

If that doesn't work, perhaps peel her skin off and rub Tabasco sauce on the bitch?

Sorry but that's as helpful as I can be, given the circumstances.

:lol:
And how are you today?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1