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The Next Culture War; Contraception
Topic Started: May 7 2006, 05:37 PM (908 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/magazine...r=1&oref=slogin
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
(struggling to make a joke with 'out of my cold, dead hands')
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Nina
Senior Carp
That's the scariest thing I've read in a good long while.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
If you want to almost guarantee a drift towards more social liberalism, this is the perfect way to go about it.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Written by a guy who has no understanding of evangelicals, who needed to fill a barn-load of copy space.

A lot of BS, spread very thinly...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
A husband will sometimes begin to see his wife as an object of sexual pleasure who should always be available for gratification.


that's the way it works in my house and all I have to say about it is Praise the Lord

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Nina
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Deb! :D :D
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Jolly
May 8 2006, 08:19 AM
Written by a guy who has no understanding of evangelicals, who needed to fill a barn-load of copy space.

A lot of BS, spread very thinly...

To which parts do you take exception?
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Bark less
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Is that not the way marriage SHOULD be? Does the author mean to imply that in the past sex was used only for procreation???? WOuld he base that on the number of children born, which would only be due to the LACk of contraception?

Perhaps a few hundred years ago a guy said to himself 'hey.. we need another kid.. honey.. c'mere'?? I think not.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Steve Miller
May 8 2006, 09:50 AM
Jolly
May 8 2006, 08:19 AM
Written by a guy who has no understanding of evangelicals, who needed to fill a barn-load of copy space.

A lot of BS, spread very thinly...

To which parts do you take exception?

To be honest, I didn't get much past the first two pages.

There is a large difference between the teachings of some of the SBC seminaries. Dallas has always been known as the "liberal" seminary, New Orleans has always been among the most conservative.

What I find amusing is that you all think evangelicals have two heads, a closet-full of guns, and are coming to steal your children.

Shucks, folks, most of them are Baptists. There is no purer form of democracy than a Baptist business meeting - a place where nobody can agree on nuthin'.

And another thing....

If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
What I would like to know is where the hell in the Bible all these conservatives find this focus on sex?

They have little concern about government policies which work against the poor, which fight against workers, which encourage unfettered materialism. They support war, the death penalty, torture (oops -- aggressive interrogation), guns, and the degradation of the environment. They oppose teaching the science of God's creation to our children and want to deny people the dignity of dying to joni their Creator when it is time. They support divorce.

But they become virtually apoplectic when it comes to anything dealing with sex. They seem to define sex as the primary if not only measure of morality -- and then, they define that morality totally in terms of procreation.

Where the hell to they get this focus? It ain't in any Bible I have ever read.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
May 8 2006, 12:24 PM

If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?

I'm not afraid of anyone's ideas. I'm afraid of having other peoples ideas and morals forced on me by people who should be off minding their own business. I don't want saving. I like sin.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
May 8 2006, 10:34 AM
Jolly
May 8 2006, 12:24 PM

If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?

I'm not afraid of anyone's ideas. I'm afraid of having other peoples ideas and morals forced on me by people who should be off minding their own business. I don't want saving. I like sin.

And well you might.

But the world doesn't work that way. Morals are derived from mores. Society is shaped by the mores of the society. The mores are shaped by societal consensus. That consensus is arrived at by the impetus of thoughts and ideas.

Now, if the society decides that it has slippied too far into depravity, debauchery, or other behaviors not beneficial to the society, why not have a good old fashioned Revival?

The pendulum swings. It never stays still.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
May 8 2006, 08:40 AM
John D'Oh
May 8 2006, 10:34 AM
Jolly
May 8 2006, 12:24 PM

If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?

I'm not afraid of anyone's ideas. I'm afraid of having other peoples ideas and morals forced on me by people who should be off minding their own business. I don't want saving. I like sin.

And well you might.

But the world doesn't work that way. Morals are derived from mores. Society is shaped by the mores of the society. The mores are shaped by societal consensus. That consensus is arrived at by the impetus of thoughts and ideas.

Now, if the society decides that it has slippied too far into depravity, debauchery, or other behaviors not beneficial to the society, why not have a good old fashioned Revival?

The pendulum swings. It never stays still.

Are you agruing, Jolly, that the use of contraception equals "depravity, debauchery, or other behaviors not beneficial to the society."

I mean, we are not talking about unfettered public sex here. We are talking about contraception. Are you really equating the use of contraception with sexual depravity, as your post seems to imply?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Help me out.

Did Jolly answer Steve's question?
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
No, and I am waiting for that answer as well.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
May 8 2006, 12:40 PM
John D'Oh
May 8 2006, 10:34 AM
Jolly
May 8 2006, 12:24 PM

If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?

I'm not afraid of anyone's ideas. I'm afraid of having other peoples ideas and morals forced on me by people who should be off minding their own business. I don't want saving. I like sin.

And well you might.

But the world doesn't work that way. Morals are derived from mores. Society is shaped by the mores of the society. The mores are shaped by societal consensus. That consensus is arrived at by the impetus of thoughts and ideas.

Now, if the society decides that it has slippied too far into depravity, debauchery, or other behaviors not beneficial to the society, why not have a good old fashioned Revival?

The pendulum swings. It never stays still.

If contraception is depraved, God alone knows what that makes me.

Actually, I lied. I do want saving. I'd like to be saved from people who think they are better than me.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
Quote:
 
The pendulum swings. It never stays still.


And the Hegelian dialectic just rolls on and on.

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
OK, I admit it, I had to look than one up. It makes a change from that other dialectic people keep going on about.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
The *other dialectic* is merely a highly personalized and outward manifestation of indignation.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?


I was going to post something snarky and offensive, but I decided that John's point is the right one. I don't care what other people believe, as long as they don't impose that belief on me. This country was founded on religious freedom, and some pretty mainstream religions don't have a problem with contraception. We're not talking about religious freedom for Hindu sects that believe in assassination.

Moreover, even among religions that are opposed to contraception (i.e., Catholicism), more than 50% of practicing Catholics use some method of birth control other than rhythm or abstinence.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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George K
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Finally
Having been raised a Catholic, I never understood the Church's position on contraception. Yes, I understand potential life, but that argument seemed specious to me.

The other contradiction I saw (even as a hormone-laden 14 year old) was the concept that sex is ONLY for procreation and that anything otherwise is sinful. On the other hand, the rhythm method is OK?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Hair shirts are to be worn while practicing rhythm.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
May 8 2006, 11:06 AM
Quote:
 
If y'all are so sure that the secular world is so right, why are y'all so scared of people with Bibles in their hands? Are you afraid that in the open market of ideas, they may just have something to offer?


I was going to post something snarky and offensive, but I decided that John's point is the right one. I don't care what other people believe, as long as they don't impose that belief on me. This country was founded on religious freedom, and some pretty mainstream religions don't have a problem with contraception. We're not talking about religious freedom for Hindu sects that believe in assassination.

Moreover, even among religions that are opposed to contraception (i.e., Catholicism), more than 50% of practicing Catholics use some method of birth control other than rhythm or abstinence.

People impose their belief system on you, and on me, everyday.

It's called the law.

Law is nothing more than codified morality.

At the end of the day, it's who has the most votes, who owns the judiciary, and how far can they twist the Constitution.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Rick Zimmer
May 8 2006, 10:45 AM
No, and I am waiting for that answer as well.

I answered the question, but it may just be too inside baseball for you to understand.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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