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Another reason I love Bush; Dow Hits 6-Year High
Topic Started: May 5 2006, 08:38 AM (444 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
In other words . . .

if I invested everything I had in the stocks of the Dow when Bush took office 6 years ago my return today would be a big fat Zero?


Great Job George!
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
If you seriously think that GW has any control whatsoever over the DOW you are grossly misinformed.

___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Mark
May 5 2006, 08:39 AM
If you seriously think that GW has any control whatsoever over the DOW you are grossly misinformed.

You're right.
A president has nothing to do with the economy of his country.
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George K
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Finally
Remember this:
Quote:
 
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says President Bush has "the worst record on jobs since Herbert Hoover," a charge echoed by every Democrat in the country and repeated incessantly by Democratic presidential candidates
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200311210905.asp


Since January 2001, and despite the dot-com bust and 9/11, the economy went ahead and created the net sum total of five million nine hundred ten thousand jobs:

137.78 million - Total employment - Jan. 2001.
143.69 million - Total employment - April 2006.

* * *
Regarding established-company payroll jobs, the economy over the past 48 months posted net gains in the following sectors:

1,068,000 – Health Care.
791,000 – Construction.
341,000 – Finance & Insurance.
152,000 – Real Estate.
113,000 – Architecture & Engineering.

* * *

Regarding lower-tiered workers, i.e., non-managers in the services sectors and production-line workers in manufacturing:

$ 14.44 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2001.
$ 14.82 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2002.
$ 15.26 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2003.
$ 15.58 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2004.
$ 16.00 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2005.
$ 16.61 = Avg. hourly earnings - April 2006.


A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
May 5 2006, 08:41 AM
Mark
May 5 2006, 08:39 AM
If you seriously think that GW has any control whatsoever over the DOW you are grossly misinformed.

You're right.
A president has nothing to do with the economy of his country.

Now you are learning.

___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
kenny
May 5 2006, 11:38 AM
In other words . . .

if I invested everything I had in the stocks of the Dow when Bush took office 6 years ago my return today would be a big fat Zero?


Great Job George!

Yeah, that is a great job. After the dot.com bust, which he had nothing to do with, tanked the stock market it has now climbed back to where it was.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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Considering the market Bush inhereted in 2001, and the biggest attack on America since the war of 1812 later that year....our economy is doing DAMN fine! George...nice stats, very interest and inspiring! :)
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Mark
May 5 2006, 11:47 AM
kenny
May 5 2006, 08:41 AM
Mark
May 5 2006, 08:39 AM
If you seriously think that GW has any control whatsoever over the DOW you are grossly misinformed.

You're right.
A president has nothing to do with the economy of his country.

Now you are learning.

I agree with Mark. The president gets too much credit when things are good and too much blame when things are bad. The part of the economy cake that the president has control over is becoming smaller and smaller while the cake is getting bigger and bigger.

However, the politicians will continue to use the data to best fit their particular side of the story.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
I disagree w/Mark and Taiwan girl a bit.

Without Bush you don't get tax cuts, with out tax cuts you don't get this recovery, IMO.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
The Dow when Bush took office was vastly overvalued, with P/E ratios of around 25 to 1. (note: I don't know what it is today, but where I have read it is more like 10 to 1, much more reasonable.) NASDAQ was probably even worse because it was so tech-heavy, and much of the tech stock valuation was vapor. It had to fall, and fall hard, which it did. I feared it before it happened and hedged accordingly. 9/11 then came along and slid us further down.

If we accept the premise of this thread, that the President is at least somewhat responsible, then this man has done on hell of a job on the economy getting the market where it is today.

Note to Kenny: If you had everything in stocks EVER, shame on you! Diversify, diversify, diversify!
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Wasn't it only Clinton who had no control of the economy? Or was that only the good bits/bad bits*?

* -delete as applicable, depending on which particular group of rocket scientists you vote for.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Bernard
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Senior Carp
More reasons to love Bush & Co. :

The Omnipotent (But Far From Omniscient) Executive

Endgame for the Constitution

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The Bush administration has done more damage to Americans and more harm to America's reputation than any other administration in history. Yet, a majority of Republicans still support Bush. This tells much about blind party loyalty.

By encouraging the move offshore of American jobs and manufacturing, Bush has run up tremendous trade deficits that have undermined the world's confidence in the dollar as the reserve currency. Recently, both Chinese and Russian government officials warned of the dollar's shaky status. The fall in confidence in the dollar is evidenced by the sharp run-up in the price of gold. In January 2001 the price of gold was about $240 per ounce. Today the price is $660 per ounce.

The price of gasoline has risen from around $1.30 per gallon to over $3.00 per gallon. Obviously, Bush's war in the Middle East did not ensure the oil supply.

On Bush's watch, three million US manufacturing jobs have disappeared. Tens of thousands of highly qualified US engineers have lost their employment. US job growth has fallen six to seven million jobs behind population growth. Recent college graduates are employed as waitresses and bartenders.

Illegal immigration has continued to explode. While Bush spends $1 trillion and many lives trying to control borders in the MIddle East, America's borders remain undefended and over run. Bush advocates amnesty for the illegals who have invaded America while Bush invades distant countries.

On false pretenses Bush invaded Iraq, a country that comprised no threat to America. American high explosives have devastated Iraq and its infrastructure and killed at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians, people who Bush claims to be bringing freedom and democracy.

All stability has disappeared from Iraq. Iraqis now live in fear of one another as well as fear of American troops. On April 28 Iraqi vice president Adil Abdul-Mahdi said that 100,000 Iraqi families have been uprooted by the sectarian violence unleashed by Bush's overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

Not content with the uncontrollable mayhem he has brought to Iraq, Bush hopes to expand the catastrophe by attacking Iran. The US Secretary of State, sounding like the warmonger she is, says the US may ignore the United Nations and attack Iran on its own initiative. This would be the second time that the Bush administration initiated wars of aggression--war crimes under the Nuremburg standard established by the US.

Bush claims that he is higher authority than both US law and international law. In the past, US presidents vetoed laws with which they disagreed. Bush signs the laws and ignores them.

Bush has declared himself to be the sole judge of the limits of his powers--a claim that violates Bush's oath of office to uphold the US Constitution. Bush has set aside the Bill of Rights by detaining people indefinitely without charges, by kidnapping and torturing people, and by spying on Americans without warrants. These are actions that are illegal under law as well as unconstitutional. All of these violations of law and the Constitution are serious impeachable offenses.

Yet. Congress is supine as the Bush regime exercises dictatorial powers. The exercise of these dictatorial powers by the executive is a far greater danger to American liberty than are Muslim terrorists.

Bush's apologists claim that only terrorists have anything to fear. However, unaccountable executive power is inconsistent with free societies. America is no exception. Unless Bush is impeached and turned over to the war crimes court in the Hague, Americans will never reclaim their liberties from an executive branch that has established itself as the sole judge of the limits of its powers.

As Jacob Hornberger, president of the Future of Freedom Foundation wrote last month, "we now live in a nation in which the president has the omnipotent power to ignore all constitutional restraints on his power." Bruce Fein, a Justice Department official in the Reagan administration said that Bush "is moving us toward an unlimited executive power."

The Bush regime's practice of excessive secrecy and denial of information to Congress allows the regime to avoid judicial review of its power claims. Bush ignores Congress and evades the courts.

When President Richard Nixon made excessive claims for presidential powers, principled Republicans revolted and helped to bring down Nixon. Today's Republicans are loyal only to power. They have no principles. By supporting Bush, Republicans are bringing down America.
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Bernard
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Senior Carp
I hate to leave this thread on such a negative note. Here's something positive... about Democrats (not that I don't have my own problems with them these days)...

Andrew Tobias has this little graph up today...

"Listen kids. It’s awkward to brag, but for the last quarter century, at least, it’s Democrats who’ve had some vague notion about how to manage money. Our National Debt was $1 trillion the year Reagan took office and will be $10 trillion the day Bush leaves (unless he uses emergency powers to extend his term). Of that incremental $9 trillion, $8 trillion will have been racked up under just three presidents: Reagan, Bush, and Bush. The interest we must pay on that debt every year, even at today’s relatively low rates, already is equivalent to 40% of all the personal incomes taxes Americans pay – and will almost surely be even higher by the time Bush goes. That’s the financial box Republican leadership has put us – and our children – in, and it’s going to be very tough to get out. So let’s be clear: the modern Republican Party is very good about managing money in the sense of funneling ever more of it into fewer and fewer hands. But beyond that, they have significantly weakened our country, and our children’s country. It is a tragedy."
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
The Bush administration has done more damage to Americans and more harm to America's reputation than any other administration in history.


This kind of rhetoric, mere opinion stated as fact and repeated over and over again as if it were true, is what is doing more damage to Americans than anything.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
"Listen kids. It’s awkward to brag, but for the last quarter century, at least, it’s Democrats who’ve had some vague notion about how to manage money. Our National Debt was $1 trillion the year Reagan took office and will be $10 trillion the day Bush leaves (unless he uses emergency powers to extend his term). Of that incremental $9 trillion, $8 trillion will have been racked up under just three presidents: Reagan, Bush, and Bush. The interest we must pay on that debt every year, even at today’s relatively low rates, already is equivalent to 40% of all the personal incomes taxes Americans pay – and will almost surely be even higher by the time Bush goes. That’s the financial box Republican leadership has put us – and our children – in, and it’s going to be very tough to get out. So let’s be clear: the modern Republican Party is very good about managing money in the sense of funneling ever more of it into fewer and fewer hands. But beyond that, they have significantly weakened our country, and our children’s country. It is a tragedy."


Sheer, utter partisan bull**** - and ignorant bull**** at that.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Bush is touting the wonders of his economy. Too bad it isn't good for everyone -- especially those of us in the middle class.

But then, what's that to Bush? His fiscal and tax policies show that he's never cared much for anyone but corporations, investors and the wealthy anyway.

A rising tide that lifts only yachts
By Ezra Klein
EZRA KLEIN is a writing fellow for the American Prospect. He also writes a blog at www.ezraklein.com.
May 5, 2006

LAST WEEK WAS a good one for economists, as the normally dour practitioners of the dismal science got to use decidedly non-dismal, even exhilarating, words such as "surging" and "momentum" to describe the new quarterly growth numbers.

And they had cause for such enthusiasm. From January through March, the economy shot forward, growing by 4.8% — the largest increase in nearly three years and a stunningly rapid recovery after the previous quarter's Katrina-dampened 1.7%.

Economists, though, aren't the only ones excited. Floundering amid chaos in Iraq and corruption in Congress, Republicans are grasping at the good economic news of the last few years, seeing in it hints of electoral salvation.

Incoming White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten has promised "more happy talk about the economy" as part of his five-point plan for righting the president's poll numbers. And President Bush himself has been bragging that "thanks to tax relief, and spending restraint, and pro-growth economic policies, this economy is strong, businesses are booming and the people in this country are working."

Strangely, though, the public doesn't seem to be listening. Americans are more than twice as likely to give pollsters a negative assessment of the economy as a positive one — 64% disapprove of Bush's handling of the economy. It's strange. The macroeconomic numbers are decidedly robust, but the public remains determinedly glum.

If you dig a bit deeper than the base growth statistics, though, the picture clarifies considerably. Our economy has grown so starkly unequal that the statistician's view now says surprisingly little about the average American's experience. Last quarter may have seen 4.8% growth, but hidden in those numbers was a depressing factoid: Wages had only grown 0.7% — slower than housing, health or gasoline costs.

That's been the story of the last few years, a rising tide that lifts only yachts. It used to be that economic growth ensured wide benefits across society. But the last four years of economic expansion have been historic for the steadily increasing poverty rate — a depressing sign that inequality has so split the poor from the rich that the two hardly inhabit the same economy.

And it's not just the poor who've suffered. Research released last week by Tom Hertz of American University raised the troubling notion that inequality and economic insecurity have advanced so rapidly that the economic expansion of 2003 and 2004 was, in a variety of important ways, no better for the median American than the recession of 1990-91.

Take mobility. You often hear how our society is losing its permeability, how gumption and hard work no longer reliably propel you up the social ladder. What's not been mentioned is that, for everyone but the wealthy, it's become a whole lot easier to slide down.

From 1990 to 1991, 13% of households saw their income decline by $20,000 or more in real terms. In 2003-04, it was 16.6%. And the difference didn't come in steep falls for the rich; rather, the top income quintile saw a reduction in negative income mobility.

As for good ol' upward mobility, the median household was no more likely to move up the economic ladder during the 2003-04 expansion than it was during the 1990-91 recession. Think about that for a second — the average household's income was just as likely to increase during the last severe recession as the latest expansion. For most, the good times now are little better than the bad.

Meanwhile, health costs have increased almost 75% since 2000. And, according to a just-released study by the Commonwealth Fund, lack of insurance has become a decidedly working-class problem, with nearly 70% of the 49 million uninsured hailing from a family with at least one full-time worker.

Add in gasoline that's merrily creeping right past the $3.50-a-gallon mark, and a scorchingly hot housing market, and it's no wonder Gallup's "worry index" — a poll tracking public fears on seven economic issues — has recorded its highest-ever reading, marking us as the most economically anxious public since its inception six years ago.

The economy, despite what some economists and politicians think, isn't an abstraction, it's an experience. And the average American isn't experiencing 4.8% growth; he's experiencing increased income insecurity, wages lagging behind prices and deteriorating health benefits. Strong as the growth might be, a strong economy isn't much good if it's using those biceps to pummel the working class.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
A couple of points...

1. Instead of reading op-eds by fish-eyed fools, take a look at a simple pie chart of U.S. government spending. Please note how much spending is tied directly to programs enacted by the Democrat congress under the leadership of a Democrat president, LBJ.

Take those monies out, and see what you have.

2. Oil is traded on the world's commodity markets. The market determines the price. The price is determined by supply and demand. A huge increase in demand has been created by the China Miracle (as they would call it).

Other fish-eyed fools, sporting the latest in tin-foil haberdashery, are vehemently opposed to the United States increasing its supply of oil. We can't drill in a remote corner of Alaska, a place where almost none of us will ever visit, and where almost nobody lives. We can't drill offshore in Florida, because we might ruin the view from some person's million dollar hurricane magnet.


The current economic and energy situation of the world is quite simple. It's a global economy, and it ain't goin' back. Isolationism won't work, and neither will sticking your head in the sand and pretending that outside influences have no effect on the economy and well-being of the United States.

As is so often the choice of a great power, we are once again faced with the prospect of "lead, follow, or get the Hell out of the way".
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
While the entire article Rick posted is silly, I found the part about the "hot housing market" especially funny. Only a "fish eyed fool" as Jolly put it, could pull off a Bush Bash using that one. If the housing market was slow and prices were falling, they'd bash Bush for that - if the housing market is hot and prices are going up, they bash Bush. Either way, it makes no difference, they bash Bush.

These same fish eyed fools just a few months ago were wringing their hands over the impending housing bubble that was about to burst - which of course was all Bush's fault...... now here we are, there was no bubble to burst, and it's Bush's fault it didn't happen......

And we're supposed to take these idiots seriously?
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
One might point out that Reagan inherited an economy in shambles (remember 16% mortgages?) from his predecessor, a Soviet Union that threatened to become a stronger military power than the US and a population that had lost confidence in it s leadership through the fine efforts of Nixon and Carter.

One might also mention that Clinton inherited the economic boom that began in the spending and tax cuts of the Reagan years.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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iainhp
Middle Aged Carp
Quote:
 

Add in gasoline that's merrily creeping right past the $3.50-a-gallon mark


Is this a good, or a bad thing? First the war was about oil (like you thought Bush was out to flood the US with cheap oil stolen from Iraq). Then the high price of oil is a good thing as it will drop our demand for foreign oil because everyone will stop driving SUVs - but no drilling new fields in the US (on shore or off shore). Now it's a bad thing again. :confused:
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
May 6 2006, 11:32 AM
One might point out that Reagan inherited an economy in shambles (remember 16% mortgages?) from his predecessor, a Soviet Union that threatened to become a stronger military power than the US and a population that had lost confidence in it s leadership through the fine efforts of Nixon and Carter.

One might also mention that Clinton inherited the economic boom that began in the spending and tax cuts of the Reagan years.

One might also remember that George Bush Snr. was forced into becoming a liar 'Read my lips - No more taxis! Oh hell, how do I get home?' by the fact that his Republican predecessor's 2nd term spending resembled a maritime coinoisseur of fine wines and cognacs.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
That would be me.. the drunken sailor. I do so love sailing, fine wines and cognacs.

Actually I just went wine shopping yesterday and my spending was not pleasing to my spouse. Oh well.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
May 6 2006, 02:15 PM
That would be me.. the drunken sailor. I do so love sailing, fine wines and cognacs.

Actually I just went wine shopping yesterday and my spending was not pleasing to my spouse. Oh well.

I hear you. They ask my wife 'why the long face?'. She answers 'because my other half is a horse's ass'.

:rimshot:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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