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Don't Show Up For Work We'll Fire You; Legal or Not
Topic Started: Apr 12 2006, 08:35 AM (699 Views)
Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
George K
Apr 15 2006, 12:06 PM
Quote:
 
It is their criminal activity that has created the massive problem we now have.

So if a burglar breaks into my house, and shoots me with a gun that I left on the table, it's my fault.

Quote:
 
these employers should spend some time in jail or pay very high fines for the laws they have broken
When I worked in those factories, INS paid surprise visits all the time. We had no illegals. However, you're right, this is a country of laws, and those who break them should be prosecuted, and if convicted, punished. That goes for illegal employer and illegal employee.

Bad analogy, George.

If these employers were not hiring undocumented workers (you know -- the protestors!) there would be no jobs and the migrants would not have illegally crossed the border. It is the employers who created the problem. The workers only came because the employers prvided jobs.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
these employers should spend some time in jail or pay very high fines for the laws they have broken
When I worked in those factories, INS paid surprise visits all the time. We had no illegals. However, you're right, this is a country of laws, and those who break them should be prosecuted, and if convicted, punished. That goes for illegal employer and illegal employee.


Do you assume the protestors were in this country illegally?

If so, then you have to assume the employers who are firing them had hired illegal workers. This would be just cause for a thorough and complete investigation, including subpoenas of all of their hiring records, tax returns and anything else that relates to their employees ands their payment of them, for breaking the laws of the United States.

Do you advocate as strict enforcement of the employer side of the laws as you do of the immigrant side? Do you support full investigations of any employer who fired a worker who protested on the basis that the protestors were probably here illegally and thus their employers hiring of them was equally illegal?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
However, if we are really going to enforce our laws, then these employers should all be investigated and if it is shown they did employ undocumented workers, they should be tried and then sentenced. It is their criminal activity that has created the massive problem we now have.

I can only assume that all of those who want the undocumented workers to be punished for seeking a better life would agree that these employers should spend some time in jail and/or pay very high fines for the laws they have broken.


I have no problem with enforcing the law against employers who hire illegal aliens. None. Personally, I've been cautious with respect to my own hiring practices to make certain that I have the appropriate documentation from anyone who works for me.

Quote:
 
Do you support full investigations of any employer who fired a worker who protested on the basis that the protestors were probably here illegally and thus their employers hiring of them was equally illegal?


No, and here's why. I support enforcing the law against ALL employers. I wouldn't single out those who fired people who participated in immigration protests for special attention.

Quote:
 
If these employers were not hiring undocumented workers (you know -- the protestors!) there would be no jobs and the migrants would not have illegally crossed the border. It is the employers who created the problem. The workers only came because the employers prvided jobs.


Chickens and eggs. Did they come because jobs were available, or did the employers choose to make jobs available because the workers were here?

It doesn't matter, really. Enforce it against employees and employers. Just like enforcing prostitution laws against both prostitutes and johns.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Rick Zimmer
Apr 15 2006, 11:44 AM
I am fascinated by the fact that people who have jobs that allow them to sit all day in front of a computer spending their time posting their opinions on any silly issue they wish on an internet bulletin board are supporting the firing of people who punch a clock, do physical and manual labor, whose breaks are closely monitored to make sure they do not exceed the allowed time, for taking off one day on their own to express their opinion on an issue of vital importance to them, their families and their lives.

I trust I am not the only one who sees how completely ironic this entire thread is.

Some folks have jobs that give them a lot of latitude, as long as they can produce.

Or perhaps some of us have superior time management skills, excellent reading ability, and the ability to knock out a reply in seconds.

So, what's your excuse? :lol:



Speaking of working....I can't do what I used to do...I can't throw a green crosstie or a joint of Schedule 40 over my shoulder and walk off with it like I could many moons ago. If I tried to chunk a 200 pound calf in a stock trailer nowadays, I'd probably wind up on the losing end of the fight. I know I can't cut 3 cords of firewood, go home and take a bath, then pick up my date for a Saturday night frolic. I can't split fence posts or rails all day, and I'll probably never put a 100 pound sack of feed on my shoulder, grab another one with the off hand, then climb the ladder into the barn loft. Sawmill, farm, heavy industry...I know what it feels like to wear a hardhat, steel-toes, and have a foreman yelling at me to drink no more than I could sweat out, 'cuz we ain't got time to stop and piss.

No, not anymore, but there was a time....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
Apr 15 2006, 04:33 PM

Or perhaps some of us have superior time management skills, excellent reading ability, and the ability to knock out a reply in seconds.

So, what's your excuse? :lol:

I employ an illegal immigrant to post on my behalf. I wanted to deport him as a way of moving my 'work' offshore, but they don't have broadband in his village.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
QuirtEvans
Apr 15 2006, 12:27 PM
Quote:
 
Do you support full investigations of any employer who fired a worker who protested on the basis that the protestors were probably here illegally and thus their employers hiring of them was equally illegal?


No, and here's why. I support enforcing the law against ALL employers. I wouldn't single out those who fired people who participated in immigration protests for special attention.

While I would agree with that, quirt, my point it that if all of the assumptions being made by the conservatives on here are true -- namely that the protestors are primarily undocumented workers -- then it seems to me these same posters would have to say there is reasonable cause to assume that employers firing the protestors had hired undocumented workers.

Once that reaspnable cause is established, a full blown investigation with all of the power of the US Attorney's offices and the Justice Department should be undertaken -- especially when having all these undocumented workewrs is such a massive attack on the United States; or so the posters on here would seem to be arguing.

Now, I don't think there should be any such investigation. But then, I am not the one who has been arguing and implying that the protestors are primarily undocumented workers so I have no grounds upon which to assume hiring illegality on the part of their employers.

It is really the conservatives on here who have established that criteria when they have attacked the protestors as being primarily undocumented workers.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
To quote George W. Bush - "Bring it on!"
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Rick Zimmer
Apr 15 2006, 02:50 PM
QuirtEvans
Apr 15 2006, 12:27 PM
Quote:
 
Do you support full investigations of any employer who fired a worker who protested on the basis that the protestors were probably here illegally and thus their employers hiring of them was equally illegal?


No, and here's why. I support enforcing the law against ALL employers. I wouldn't single out those who fired people who participated in immigration protests for special attention.

While I would agree with that, quirt, my point it that if all of the assumptions being made by the conservatives on here are true -- namely that the protestors are primarily undocumented workers -- then it seems to me these same posters would have to say there is reasonable cause to assume that employers firing the protestors had hired undocumented workers.

Once that reaspnable cause is established, a full blown investigation with all of the power of the US Attorney's offices and the Justice Department should be undertaken -- especially when having all these undocumented workewrs is such a massive attack on the United States; or so the posters on here would seem to be arguing.

Now, I don't think there should be any such investigation. But then, I am not the one who has been arguing and implying that the protestors are primarily undocumented workers so I have no grounds upon which to assume hiring illegality on the part of their employers.

It is really the conservatives on here who have established that criteria when they have attacked the protestors as being primarily undocumented workers.

Rick:

You are getting insanely Zimmerian again. The argument has nothing to do with whether they are legal or not -- it has to do with whether they showed up for work or not. Your Zimmerian Dialectic® is running amok once again. Us *conservatives* (shudder) are neither arguing nor implying that the protestors are primarily undocumented workers. You seem to just make up things to attribute to those you disagree with.

The bottom line is that if they are guests in this country they have no business protesting the policies of this country. Go home if they don't like it here. And if they are citizens, they are of course free to protest, but their employers have no legal, moral or ethical obligations to keep them employed.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
To quote Gorge W. Bush


Talk about your Freudian typos ....
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
The one thing that amazes me in the entire debate is how those millions of illegal, undocumented workers are so clever, ingenious, and bright as to deceive all those loyal, law-abiding, and conscientious employers concerning their true status. :rolleyes:

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Apr 17 2006, 07:04 AM
Quote:
 
To quote Gorge W. Bush


Talk about your Freudian typos ....

Just slippin' into the border dialect....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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Finally
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
Ifco busted

What this article doesn't say is that the IRS had contacted this company *13 times* to notify them that over 1000 of their employees were using incorrect social security numbers. Employees were using either fake numbers or numbers from dead people.

Hope to see more of this enforcement action. And I'm glad to see they are arresting the managers too. :thumb:
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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