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'and am'; grammarians convene, please...
Topic Started: Apr 3 2006, 07:41 AM (405 Views)
jazzyd
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Junior Carp
Someone help me out: Is and am permissible in Standard English (American, British, or whatever)?

It sounds awkward to me. I read it all the time on the internet, but I never hear people actually say it; it's always either and I am or and I'm.

?
One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
I am sorry to say that I truly don't know and am looking into it.

Yes, that sentence does seem odd. But, like you, I've read it "and have" heard it before.

I just bought Eats, Shoots and Leaves. Maybe it will be in there.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
It seems to me that the first person personal pronoun can dropped if it is implied both by context and by use of the agreeing verb:

"We are going to the carnival and I am planning to ride the carousel."

But

"I am going to the carnival and am planning to ride the carousel."

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
It has to do with independent and subordinate clauses, and it must take into account the resultant punctuation rules, also:

Two independent clauses:

I am an architect, and I am a native of Masontown, Pennsylvania.

Independent/subordinate clauses:

I am an architect and am a native of Masontown, Pennsylvania.

or:

I am an architect and a native of Masontown, Pennsylvania.

Any one of these three is proper usage and punctuation - which one you prefer is a Fielder's Choice.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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jazzyd
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Junior Carp
Yes, it certainly seems that way. I had a brief look through the David Crystal grammar book I have, but couldn't find any mention of it.


I am glad I started this thread and am appreciating the replies.

:unsure:


Edit: Thanks, Dwain. I think I'll manage without it, if I can. :puke:
One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
HA! In my response, I just noticed I broke the exact grammar/punctuation rule I just quoted... I'm going to fix it before anyone notices...

:leaving:
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Apr 3 2006, 09:28 AM
It seems to me that the first person personal pronoun can dropped if it is implied both by context and by use of the agreeing verb:

"We are going to the carnival and I am planning to ride the carousel."

But 

"I am going to the carnival and am planning to ride the carousel."

I agree. Adding another "I" to say 'I am going to the carnival and I am planning to ride the carousel' sounds clunky, and seems unecessary.

I've been going through my 'Elements of Style', but haven't found anything there. :nerd:
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apple
one of the angels
why not... it seems very natural to me.

it sounds kind of funny but many grammatically correct things do.
it behooves me to behold
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
sue
Apr 3 2006, 09:39 AM

I agree. Adding another "I" to say 'I am going to the carnival and I am planning to ride the carousel' sounds clunky, and seems unecessary.

I've been going through my 'Elements of Style', but haven't found anything there. :nerd:

Elements of Style! GREAT resource! I lost my copy, and really need to get it back.

Stephen King's "On Writing" is very interesting, also. Not really a "reference" as such, but it does provide some great insight.



And yeah, IT and Sue are right. If a conjunction is joining parts of a sentence that contain the same subject, it (the subject) needs only to be stated once.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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am.

That's a funny word.
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apple
one of the angels
1/2 of spam
it behooves me to behold
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The 89th Key
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2/3 of ham.

2/1 of a.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sam I am :hat:
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jazzyd
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Junior Carp
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=+%2...le+Search&meta=

Okay, I am converted and am thankful.
One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards.
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Matt G.
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Middle Aged Carp
"He lives in Manchester and is a registered Huguenot."

"The dog sleeps in the doghouse and pees on the lawn."

"David has green eyes and owns two pianos."

"You ask strange questions and then are surprised by the strange answers."

"We enjoy pasta but eat it very seldom."

"I work in London but live in Colchester."

In a dependent clause linked with a conjuction, no repetition of the subject is required in the second clause. There is no special case of exception for the verb to be in the first person singular. Use different verbs and pronouns and the aversion to 'and am' seems unnecessarily punctilious.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Matt G.
Apr 3 2006, 11:00 AM
...and the aversion to 'and am' seems unnecessarily punctilious.

Saints preserve us from seeming unnecessarily punctilious.

:biggrin: Not a criticism because the statement is quite right, just struck me funny coming from one of the more punctilious members of the forum. :wink:

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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Matt G.
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Middle Aged Carp
big al
Apr 3 2006, 02:09 PM
Saints preserve us from seeming unnecessarily punctilious.

:biggrin: Not a criticism because the statement is quite right, just struck me funny coming from one of the more punctilious members of the forum. :wink:

We aims to amuse!
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yes, I think the "unnecessarily punctilious" usage is usually reserved for game show contestants or video dating applicants, rattling off a list of their attributes as a way of introduction before the game begins. Pretty much everywhere else, the repetetive verb is generally dropped.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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jazzyd
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Junior Carp
[Matt G.] You mean the repetitive subject. [/Matt G.] :shifty:
One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards.
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Matt G.
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Middle Aged Carp
Woo-hoo! I've now become an attribute tag! :clap:
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Actually, no, I was referring to the repetitive verb. We got rid of the repetetive subject earlier in the thread.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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jazzyd
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Junior Carp
[Matt G.] F'sho, dawg. Laterz. [/Matt G.]
One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
Perhaps this reference could prove useful.

Posted Image

Grammar Snobs Are Great Big Meanies : A Guide to Language for Fun and Spite (Paperback) by June Casagrande

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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