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"brothers and sisters"
Topic Started: Apr 2 2006, 11:14 AM (241 Views)
pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
It seems like it's the latest fashion to refer to everybody in the entire world as your brothers and sisters.

quote from another thread:

"I have a huge amount of respect for your Isaeli brother and sisters who continue to fight for peace and continue to engage with their Palestinian brothers and sisters."

The advisor in my hall at the dorm refers to all of the residents as 'brothers.'

I just read a "letter from Birmingham" by MLK, and he refers to all of his Jewish brothers and sisters and his White brothers and sisters and his African-American brothers and sisters.



What's the reasoning behind this? If I recall correctly, I myself have only 2 brothers and only 1 sister, and I'm not sure I could ever call anyone else my brother or sister who isn't really my brother or sister (except for maybe in-laws, when the time comes).
Sam
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The 89th Key
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I have Christian brothers and sisters.
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kathyk
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Pisa-Carp
I suppose it harkens to Biblical terminology :shrug: Brethren was used a lot in the Bible (I think). But, it conjures up the notion of brotherly love and an over riding respect for all humankind - regardless of differences in faith, origin, philosophy, blah, blah, blah. I think adding in sisters is relatively modern and probably an attempt to override the sexist connotation of brethren. Just my guess.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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George K
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Finally
What a ridiculous question.

"Brothers and Sisters!" Bah!

We're too busy fighting! :whome:
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pianojerome
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My 2 brothers and 1 sister are Jewish. They are also white. They are also American.

I don't have any Christian, black, or Palestinian brothers and sisters. :shrug:
Sam
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I have idiot nephews, if that helps, as well as a particularly annoying cousin.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Apr 2 2006, 02:31 PM
I suppose it harkens to Biblical terminology :shrug:   Brethren was used a lot in the Bible (I think).  But, it conjures up the notion of brotherly love and an over riding respect for all humankind - regardless of differences in faith, origin, philosophy, blah, blah, blah.  I think adding in sisters is relatively modern and probably an attempt to override the sexist connotation of brethren.  Just my guess.

That's another question I had.

How is 'brethren' or 'mankind' sexist? I don't think anybody excludes women when they refer to 'mankind' and 'man' is maybe just a shortened form of 'human'. I don't think anyone says 'mankind' and thinks 'ah those stupid women, they don't count.' As for 'brethren' - does the Bible (or translations of the bible, rather) ever refer to women using the term 'brethren'? If so, and if it refers to men and women in the same way, then I'm not sure how it is sexist. If it only refers to men, then I'm still not sure how it is sexist. After all, "women" only refers to women, and that is not a sexist term.
Sam
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justme
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I have 9 brothers and sisters. The rest of you are "Puente" wannabes! :smile:
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Jack Frost
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kk hijacking JF's computer - again
Quote:
 
Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
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kathyk
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pianojerome
Apr 2 2006, 03:35 PM

How is 'brethren' or 'mankind'    ist?  I don't think anybody excludes women when they refer to 'mankind' and 'man' is maybe just a shortened form of 'human'.  I don't think anyone says 'mankind' and thinks 'ah those stupid women, they don't count.'  As for 'brethren' - does the Bible (or translations of the bible, rather) ever refer to women using the term 'brethren'?  If so, and if it refers to men and women in the same way, then I'm not sure how it is    ist.  If it only refers to men, then I'm still not sure how it is    ist.  After all, "women" only refers to women, and that is not a    $exist term.


I can't answer the Bible questions - I'm only an armchair theologian - but I'll take a stab at the first one. I, personally, would not be offended by use of the term brethren, but I think it's fallen out of popular use for a couple reasons. First, because of feminism. It's not PC to use a term that was meant to be all-inclusive that is grammatically speaking - specific and exclusive. Second, and maybe for the same reasons, brethren has come to sound old-fashioned and stodgy - (at least to me) hinting of fundamentalism.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Dewey
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pianojerome
Apr 2 2006, 11:35 AM
That's another question I had.

How is 'brethren' or 'mankind' sexist?  I don't think anybody excludes women when they refer to 'mankind' and 'man' is maybe just a shortened form of 'human'.  I don't think anyone says 'mankind' and thinks 'ah those stupid women, they don't count.'  As for 'brethren' - does the Bible (or translations of the bible, rather) ever refer to women using the term 'brethren'?  If so, and if it refers to men and women in the same way, then I'm not sure how it is sexist.  If it only refers to men, then I'm still not sure how it is sexist.  After all, "women" only refers to women, and that is not a sexist term.

Personally, I don't feel those words are sexist. Neither do I have a problem referring to God as "He," even though I know that God is spirit, transcending such finite, creature-specific distinctions of male and female. The ancient writers faced the same dilemma we do today in addressing or referring to groups of mixed sex; historically, and even up to relatively recently, the masculine terminology has been the default, to refer to both men and women.

But there are a group of people who feel they've been victimized by patriarchal societal arrangements, who take offense at those words, and for whom the use of those words become such a distraction (at least for them) that they miss the mpint of the actual message that a person is trying to get across. They get too hung up on the specific words and miss the real, bigger, picture. So, since the whole topic doesn't really rate high up on my own personal "Offense-O-Meter," anymore I usually try to use language that is more "inclusive": I'll reference "humanity" or "humankind" instead of mankind. I'll use the abbreviation "s/he" in writing sometimes, and I'll try to talk about God as "God," and not "He", unless it requires awkard phrasing or repetetiveness: "God says that God loves and cares for us, and God has shown that God's love for us is shown through..." Yuk, all that terrible phrasing out of fear of using a simple pronoun now and then. My basic rule, whether talking about "mankind," God as "He," and similar usages, is that I'll add an extra syllable or three to avoid offending someone's sensitivity to masculine-default terminology, but if it gets any more complicated than that, or if it makes the sentence sound stupid, fuhgheddaboutit. :rolleyes:
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FrankM
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Dwain
Apr 2 2006, 06:13 PM
pianojerome
Apr 2 2006, 11:35 AM
That's another question I had.

How is 'brethren' or 'mankind' sexist?  I don't think anybody excludes women when they refer to 'mankind' and 'man' is maybe just a shortened form of 'human'.  I don't think anyone says 'mankind' and thinks 'ah those stupid women, they don't count.'  As for 'brethren' - does the Bible (or translations of the bible, rather) ever refer to women using the term 'brethren'?  If so, and if it refers to men and women in the same way, then I'm not sure how it is sexist.  If it only refers to men, then I'm still not sure how it is sexist.  After all, "women" only refers to women, and that is not a sexist term.

Personally, I don't feel those words are sexist. Neither do I have a problem referring to God as "He," even though I know that God is spirit, transcending such finite, creature-specific distinctions of male and female. The ancient writers faced the same dilemma we do today in addressing or referring to groups of mixed sex; historically, and even up to relatively recently, the masculine terminology has been the default, to refer to both men and women.

But there are a group of people who feel they've been victimized by patriarchal societal arrangements, who take offense at those words, and for whom the use of those words become such a distraction (at least for them) that they miss the mpint of the actual message that a person is trying to get across. They get too hung up on the specific words and miss the real, bigger, picture. So, since the whole topic doesn't really rate high up on my own personal "Offense-O-Meter," anymore I usually try to use language that is more "inclusive": I'll reference "humanity" or "humankind" instead of mankind. I'll use the abbreviation "s/he" in writing sometimes, and I'll try to talk about God as "God," and not "He", unless it requires awkard phrasing or repetetiveness: "God says that God loves and cares for us, and God has shown that God's love for us is shown through..." Yuk, all that terrible phrasing out of fear of using a simple pronoun now and then. My basic rule, whether talking about "mankind," God as "He," and similar usages, is that I'll add an extra syllable or three to avoid offending someone's sensitivity to masculine-default terminology, but if it gets any more complicated than that, or if it makes the sentence sound stupid, fuhgheddaboutit. :rolleyes:

I read that entire post and am still confused about God's actual gender. Very disappinting post, Dwain. You could at least have given a few clues.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I prefer "brethern and cisterns"
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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