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| The Home Theater Question Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 1 2006, 10:01 AM (349 Views) | |
| Jeffrey | Apr 1 2006, 10:01 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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I posted this as a joke in another thread, but it did seem to generate some interest. Some of you may remember a few months ago I asked about LCD or Plasma TVs. Well, after looking at them, I realized that for about the same money, I could have a full HT system, with a 120 inch cinema screen, surround sound, the works (actually, Thumpy put the idea in my head). I spent about a month researching it and listening to systems in the NYC area, partly to see what was possible, partly to get a good deal, and partly because I found the new technology very interesting. I'd be happy to answer any questions. For me the difficult issues were fitting it into a normal, non-dedicated living room, and whether to integrate the system with my stereo system. I also chose to go budget bang-for-the-buck rather than state-of-the-art, since technology changes so quickly in this area (with HiDef coming around the corner, and this stuff just beginning to hit the mass market). I plan to upgrade in the future, but a really kick-a@@ system can be had for 4-5k. Here is what I got: (1) Panasonic 900 LCD projector, (2) a 120inch DaLite HighPower screen, (3) a Marantz 5600 receiver and (4) some Atlantic Tech 2200 bookshelf speakers, and (5) an Oppo 971 DVD player. I got most of it over the internet, cutting out the idiotic margins of most audio stores, and stiffing many pushy stupid salesweasels. In projectors the choice is LCD or DLP. DLP has better black levels, LCD offers good color. You can have both for about 15-30k in a 3-chip DLP projector, but the depreciation on this will be huge, since High Def 1080p projectors are right around the corner, and 30k now will be 5k in 2 years. So I got a 1500 dollar 720p LCD, and will trade up in a few years. It is still a huge jump up from any TV. I got the DaLite HighPower screen because it reflects back more light than other screens, allowing it to be used with ambient light. I had to give up some black contrast ratio to get this, but I think it will work better in a multi-use living room (not a dedicated HT room). I wanted a Screen Research acoustically transparent screen, so the speakers can be behind the screen, like in a movie theater, but this cost 7k, and the technology is new. So I got a 500 dollar high reflection screen. Other companies also make high reflection screens, so you don't have to watch tv in the dark, but DaLite offers the most bang for the buck (Vutech and Stewart also make good screens for 5-10 times more money.) I will have to put the speakers on the sides of the screen, which is how 99.9 percent of all HTers currently do it, (Screen Research being a new company, and traditional perforated screens offering both bad acoustics and bad picture), even though it is theoretically better to have the speakers behind the screen, where the voices are. I had to get bookshelf speakers, since I already have a stereo system in place, and needed to save space. I could have integrated the HT and stereo system, but only at a price above what I wanted to pay at present (given the quality of the stereo). The Atlantic Tech speakers got good reviews, I basically bought them over the internet to save money. They are meant to be dedicated HT speakers, and are designed differently from stereo speakers. Same with the Oppo DVD player, with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD around the corner and a big format war in the works, I just chose to get a bank for the buck DVD player (200 dollars) and see what HiDef format, if any, wins. There are basically three decent entry-level receivers under 1k in price: Denon, Marantz and Harman Kardon. Denon has lots of inputs and features, HK has Logic 7 processing, and the Marantz is the most musical. I got the Marantz for under 500 dollars. You can also get separates of audiophile quality for 6-20k or more (I liked Bryston over Lexicon and Meridian), but I didn't want to do that just for watching DVDs, at least not for now. I also got a retro video game set up, and will get an older low resolution Sony Trinitron monitor, which is compatible with the low res output of the video consoles (most current TVs input at 31 khz, and 99.9 percent of all home video games output at 15 khz, resulting in poorer picture quality and lag because of the signal conversion that needs to happen inside the tv). One should either get a specialty upscan converter (Hori and Microcom make good ones) or an older multiscan tv to get good picture quality and response time for video games with a modern TV. With the upscan converter I can also play video games on the 120 inch cinema screen. On ebay this stuff is a few hundred dollars, the problem here isn't the cost, but that most people don't know about the incompatibility of console video games and tvs. Anyway, for about 4200 dollars with shipping and tax and cables, you can get a great HT system, not much more than a basic large plasma TV. I'd be happy to answer any questions. |
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| iainhp | Apr 1 2006, 10:27 AM Post #2 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Is all the hardware placed at the front (ie under the screen)? If so, how much cable did it take to reach the projector and how did you run this cable (inside the walls, tacked to the walls....)? And the video connection is (component, composite, HDMI......)? Also - did you just string the rear speaker cables along the floor, or did you come up with a more elegant solution? I favour the projector solution also. And 720p should last for a while - not sure you can find DVD's higher than 480 line (and video content is stored as interlaced video) at present, and the way Hollywood is strugling with DRM I bet it's a while before you see a plethora of HD content. |
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| The 89th Key | Apr 1 2006, 10:30 AM Post #3 |
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Thanks for all this information. If you talk to anyone that knows me...you'll know that I've been planning on a 120-inch home theater for some time now. I of course don't plan to do anything till I at least own a town house or something bigger...because it'll be a major change. I plan to dedicate an entire room, with theater lighting, seating, and all the fun stuff you just listed. I'll even have a "move in progress..." light outside the door...kinda like an "On Air" sign in radio stations. ![]() You gave a good description and I don't have many questions, but one...did you get any sound-absorbing material for the walls? I know when I want to watch a movie, I'll want it loud, so I'm thinking of insulating the room with those sound-absorbing foam cones or something so I can be as loud as I want. Anyway....post a picture of your set up when you get a chance! Sounds cool!!!!! |
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| maple | Apr 1 2006, 02:50 PM Post #4 |
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Junior Carp
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thanks for sharing.
where from? is the fan noise a problem?
which model? |
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| FrankM | Apr 1 2006, 02:51 PM Post #5 |
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Senior Carp
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Sounds like an excellent value to me based on picture size per dollar. But. since it's a projection set-up, the resolution is going to be diluted by the picture expansion from the projection. Using DLP as a benchmark for arguably the best choice today in projection TV picture quality, how does the front projection, adjusted to the same size as the largest available DLP rear projection screen, match up as a function of ambient lighting? |
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| George K | Apr 1 2006, 03:23 PM Post #6 |
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Finally
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Be careful who you buy your gear from: Oven door passed off as flat-screen TV in scam ALICIA GALLEGOS Tribune Staff Writer SOUTH BEND -- It isn't a crime police have seen many times before. An unsuspecting woman purchased a "flat-screen television set" at a bargain price, the package even bubble-wrapped and complete with cord and controller. But when the street consumer returned home that February day with her "steal" of a product, she was likely steamed. "It was actually an oven door inside the package," explained South Bend Detective Sgt. Jim Walsh. Police on Thursday arrested a suspect they believe sold the appliance piece to the woman. Walsh says recent thefts of oven doors from vacant properties may be linked to the scam.The 42-year-old theft victim was reportedly approached by the 43-year-old suspect Feb. 20 at her job in the 1600 block of South Michigan Street. The asking price for the bogus TV screen was $500, but when the victim couldn't come up with the money, the suspect settled for $300. The oven door was wrapped in plastic to look like a flat screen, had Wal-Mart store labels, and included a generic remote control. "It's an elaborate job of packaging," Walsh said. The suspect's goose was cooked on Thursday after the victim's husband spotted a vehicle and recognized it as the phony salesman's. When police officers arrested the man, they also found an oven door and packaging materials inside his trunk, according to reports.Despite the bizarre fraud, police say oven doors are an increasingly hot item in area burglaries. Just this week two reports of stolen oven doors made their way to South Bend Police. The first happened Saturday at a home in the 400 block of North Arthur Street when a back door was kicked in and two suspects were seen exiting the residence carrying an oven door, according to reports. The second occurred Monday at a home in the 900 block of South Twyckenham Drive, where a back door was forced open and the oven door removed from its frame. Walsh said police have had a total of about five recent burglaries where oven doors were among the items stolen. "It was mostly at (vacant) rental homes," Walsh explained. "Some might not be discovered for a couple weeks." Police have had only a couple reports of the doors being sold as flat-screen televisions, but it's likely others went unreported, the detective said. Police continue to investigate at least two other suspects who may be disguising oven doors and selling them. Walsh warns residents not to buy products off the street or if they do, open packages first to make sure the items are what they appear to be. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| JBryan | Apr 1 2006, 04:34 PM Post #7 |
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I am the grey one
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I guess that accounts for the crappy picture I get on my oven door. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| DivaDeb | Apr 1 2006, 07:19 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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heh...you have a "movie in progress" light.... I have an "applause" sign. |
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| George K | Apr 1 2006, 07:27 PM Post #9 |
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Finally
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Let me ask this (serious) qustion. In the home I plan to retire in, the room in which I'd like to place a large scrren TV only has 1 wall that is suitable for a TV. It is the south wall of a room that measures about 18 x 35. This is the wall that the TV is on right now:![]() As you can see, I have a light problem - the western wall is all windows. In the afternoons, it is almost impossible to watch because of ambient light. What would all of you recommend, plasma LCD (though I'd prefer something larger than 40") or DLP? (oh, and the piano's going to go behind the couch in the foreground - once I get some UV protection on the windows) |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Jeffrey | Apr 1 2006, 11:06 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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George - Nothing can compete with the power of the sun. It can wash out anything. You need to have cloth shades you can roll up and down installed. Nothing else will help but light control of some sort, like shades. Plasma is the "brightest" but it still won't really help your situation. The sun is much more powerful than lightbulbs. maple - Call www.visualapex.com. The Panny 900 is 1875, minus a 400 dollar rebate. Authorized seller, full warrenty. The DaLite Highpower I got was a pull down Model C. Electric is better, but I wanted to see what I could do on an arbitrary budget. My ideal system was about 35k right now, so I made a game of seeing how well I could do for about 4k buying over the internet. Frank - I think direct view CRT is the best TV technology at present. Best colors. People don't like it due to size, and because they've been told it is outdated. LCD and Plasma offer size benefits, not better pictures. A Sony super fine pitch direct view 34 inch HD widescreen CRT tv is on closeout at about 1200 dollars. The best TV deal out there. Re: Front Projection versus Rear Projection DLP - depends on what you want. Rear projection to my eyes had a less natural color palate. (I briefly considered a 61 inch JVC Rear DLP.) However, it will be brighter than a FP DLP with sunlight uncontrolled for watching daytime TV. But the look is harsh compared to a good HT set up, or even a regular high-grade CRT tv. The Panny 900 has a "focus" lens that can make the image larger or smaller. This does not change the resolution, but it does change the brightness per inch (same lumens over less space). So for daytime viewing I can make the image smaller and brighter if I want. Not perfect, but as George observed, regular tvs wash out during the day if light isn't controlled as well. I don't watch much TV, primarily classic DVDs at night. The theoretically "best" front projection is also still CRT tube based. However, such units are very large and difficult to maintain. They also have low light output, requiring total light control, and thus were not practical for me. ianhp - I just got flat white Monster cable, run along the edge of the floor. Almost all DVDs are in 480 resolution, so one could even get an older generation projector for 800 dollars to play DVDs now, without much loss of quality. One advantage of getting an older generation 480 res projector is that the proj won't need to scale the image. I personally believe that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will flop and go the way of the SACD. The mass of the buying public doesn't care enough and the format war will kill any new interest. We shall see. |
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| Jeffrey | Apr 2 2006, 12:06 PM Post #11 |
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Senior Carp
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89 - My noise control is headphones. Most HT receivers have a Dolby Headphone plug. I have a normal multi-use living room, so sound isolation was not on topic. |
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| FrankM | Apr 2 2006, 12:27 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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I really like that adaptability feature of the front projection set-up. I have the perfect room for it too. I really appreciate your input because I was about to get an LCD, then a Plasma and then I backed off entirely because, as you said, the technology is changing so rapidly. At that price, the front projection set-up seems to be an apt choice for a near-term purchase. That’s a great price for the Sony 34". I paid a little more than twice that for the Sony XBR 36" back in 2001. It, along with the 34", has the best TV picture I’ve seen to date. But the 36" is a 4:3 screen. And it's looking smaller to me every day. (My main interests are movies, sports and video games.) |
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| FrankM | Apr 2 2006, 12:31 PM Post #13 |
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Senior Carp
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I really wish i had a good answer for you but I have nothing useful to add to what jeffrey said about your situation. Are shutters, at least for key parts of the room, entirely out of the question? There's also opaque shades often used in bedrooms to block intense sunlight. |
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| Jeffrey | Apr 2 2006, 05:15 PM Post #14 |
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Senior Carp
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Frank - What do you want to accomplish? For movies, nothing beats a real cinema-style screen, in my view. Projectors are getting better and cheaper all the time. You can set up a HT, get a really good cheap projector, and then upgrade in the future if you want to. Depreciation in projectors is about 30-40 percent a year, e.g. a 20k projector will be 12-14k next year in terms of price/performance. If you want a TV, what you have is probably best - a Rear DLP could be bigger, but have worse color and set you back 5-7k for something of any real size (e.g. the JVC 61 inch). This might change with SED technology, but that is a few years away. For sports, it is a trade-off. TV will be brighter for viewing without light control, but will be smaller. With a high-reflection HT screen, you can view sports with dim light. I don't watch sports, so this was not a loss for me. If you don't mind watching sports in dim or dark, than there is no trade off. For video games, gaming on a HT screen sounds cool, but most people don't bother. It is very distancing for shooting etc. The video problem is that consoles output at 15 khz and modern TVs input at 31khz. The best is actually an old-style low res multiscan monitor like a Sony GVM 2020. Or you can use your VGA TV with an upscan converter, as a second choice. This will give you better video and reaction time with console video games on your existing Sony TV. (A Hori upscan converter is only about 70 dollars.) |
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| iainhp | Apr 2 2006, 07:32 PM Post #15 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Jeffrey - can you identify the manufacturer of this product for me. Model number too if possible. Thanks. |
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