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| paper size; another critical poll | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 21 2006, 02:50 PM (542 Views) | |
| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 02:50 PM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i can accept fahrenheit vs centigrade and even metric vs mile but why does america have to use a different paper size then every other country in the world? |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Luke's Dad | Mar 21 2006, 02:59 PM Post #2 |
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Emperor Pengin
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Don't you know? Because we invented it, of course! And we use more paper than any other nation on earth, so it's our way or no way!
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| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| sue | Mar 21 2006, 03:00 PM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'll have to admit I didn't know this, bach. I've always assumed A4 was just referring to our standard 8.5 X 11 size. How very silly that we don't use the same size as the rest of the world. Wonder when that started?
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:01 PM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The international paper size standard, ISO 216, is metric (the base format is a sheet of paper measuring 1 mē) and has been adopted by all countries in the world, except the United States and Canada. However, although Mexico and the Philippines have officially adopted the ISO standard, the U.S. "Letter" format is common in Mexico, as is the U.S. "Legal" format in the Philippines. The most widely known size in the ISO format is A4. ISO paper sizes are all based on a single aspect ratio of the square root of two, or approximately 1:1.4142. Basing paper upon this ratio was conceived by Georg Lichtenberg in 1786, and in the beginning of the 20th century, Dr Walter Porstmann turned Lichtenberg's idea into a proper system of different paper sizes. Porstmann's system was introduced as a DIN standard (DIN 476) in Germany in 1922, replacing a vast variety of other paper formats. The DIN 467 standard spread quickly to other countries, and before the outbreak of World War II it had been adopted by Belgium (1924), Netherlands (1925), Norway (1926), Switzerland (1929), Sweden (1930), Soviet Union (1934), Hungary (1938) and Italy (1939). During the war it was adopted by Uruguay (1942), Argentina (1943) and Brazil (1943); and directly afterwards the standard continued to spread to countries like Spain (1947), Austria (1948), Romania (1949), Japan (1951), Denmark (1953), Czechoslovakia (1953), Israel (1954), Portugal (1954), Yugoslavia (1956), India (1957), Poland (1957), United Kingdom (1959), Venezuela (1962), New Zealand (1963), Iceland (1964), Mexico (1965), South Africa (1966), France (1967), Peru (1967), Turkey (1967), Chile (1968), Greece (1970), Zimbabwe (1970), Singapore (1970), Bangladesh (1972), Thailand (1973), Barbados (1973), Australia (1974), Ecuador (1974), Colombia (1975) and Kuwait (1975). By 1975 so many countries were using the German system that it was established as an ISO standard, as well as the official United Nations document format. By 1977 A4 was the standard letter format in 88 of 148 countries, and today only the U.S. and Canada have not adopted the system. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Phlebas | Mar 21 2006, 03:01 PM Post #5 |
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Bull-Carp
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People who use A4 paper can't be trusted. They email documents to me without telling me it's A4. I refuse to read them or print them out. They're the type who use words like "trainer," and can't pronounce the word "schedule." |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| Luke's Dad | Mar 21 2006, 03:02 PM Post #6 |
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Emperor Pengin
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And another thing! North America IS the "whole bleeding world"! Everywhere else is an afterthought, or one of our territories (like the Dakotas). Don't you forget that, buster!
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| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:06 PM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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as someone who has lived in both parts of the universe (america and not in america,) think that american insistence on non metric anything, is archaic and ridiculous, but something that can be tolerated. what cant be tolerated is trying to stuff an 11 x 8.5 letter into a european envelope or visa versa. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Kincaid | Mar 21 2006, 03:12 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I really liked the A4 before they changd the style. Now it kinda looks goofy. Audi (and VW) grilles are just strange, IMO. |
| Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006. | |
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| Riley | Mar 21 2006, 03:13 PM Post #9 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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fold it. :lol: What are the measurements for A4 paper? Can't be that different. |
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| The 89th Key | Mar 21 2006, 03:13 PM Post #10 |
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I like printing on 24 lb. Screw the size. |
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:18 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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A4 is 297 mm x 210 mm letter is 279 x 216 mm A4 is 18 mm longer, and 6 mm thinner. standard envelopes are made to perfectly fit a standard peice of paper folded into thirds. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:20 PM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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as for weight... Throughout the world, except in regions using US paper sizes, the product of thickness and density of paper is expressed in grams per square metre (g/mē). This quantity is commonly called grammage in both English and French (ISO 536). Typical office paper has a grammage of 80 g/mē, therefore a typical A4 sheet (1/16 mē) weighs 5 g. In countries using U.S. paper sizes, paper density is often specified in pounds. The stated mass is that of a ream of 500 sheets. However, the ream of that mass is normally not the one sold to the customer. Instead, the specified number of pounds is the mass of a "basis ream" in which the sheets have some larger size. Often, this is a size used during the manufacturing process before the paper was cut to the dimensions in which it is sold. So, to compute the weight per area, one must know the weight of the basis ream, which is labeled in pounds; the number of sheets in that ream, which is usually 500; the dimensions of an "uncut" sheet in that ream. These "uncut" basis sizes vary between paper types, are not normally labelled on the product, are not formally standardized, and therefore have to be guessed or inferred somehow from trading practice. u see why the american system sucks? |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| sue | Mar 21 2006, 03:25 PM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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careful now, don't be lumping Canadians in with this group; we're touchy about that. And we do the metric thing here. Except for home building materials. And paper sizes. And some grocery items. But we're working on it.
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| The 89th Key | Mar 21 2006, 03:26 PM Post #14 |
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The american system does suck ass when it comes to most measuring tools. However I'm sure Aqua could tell you a few instances where the american system whoops ass!
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:30 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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obviously in science even america uses the metric, as well as the US military which also uses the metric (so they wont be shooting up their allies in battle...) its just u plain folk which are metrically challenged. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| sue | Mar 21 2006, 03:33 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Wasn't there some oops miscalculation with a rocket launch a few years ago? Some problem with metric conversion? Or is that just an urban legend, that we Canadians are spreading? |
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| bachophile | Mar 21 2006, 03:37 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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no, u r refering to an air canada airplane which ran out of fuel midflight because it calculated uploaded fuel in liters while the ships computer was thinking gallons. or something like that. made an emergency gliding landing in manitoba. here is a link Gimli glider |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| sue | Mar 21 2006, 04:29 PM Post #18 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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hmm, no I'm thinking of a failed Mars mission. Maybe 5 -6 years ago? * I've been to Gimli. woohoo. |
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| ivorythumper | Mar 21 2006, 04:36 PM Post #19 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Aesthetically the proportions of 8.5 x 11 are more pleasing; however, the A4-A3-A2-A1 system makes a lot more sense for both manufacturing and scaling enlargements and reductions. With the A system the ratio of H to W stays constant, with the US system it shifts (8.5 x 11 = .774 but 11 x 17 = .647). |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| John D'Oh | Mar 21 2006, 05:35 PM Post #20 |
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MAMIL
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America still uses inches. Say that slowly, folks, and consider the consequences. America. Still. Uses. Inches. How many inches in a foot? 12 - Ah, that makes sense. Well, it does if you have to do all your maths in your head, since 12 divides up so well. However, since the average high school graduate can't even spell 'foot' never mind multiply 3 by 4 without resorting to help from Bill Gates, it's all somewhat irrelevant. They still use gallons, as well. Not even proper gallons, mind, but some funny bastardisation of the Imperial measure. Notice the word 'Imperial'. Hah! Invented it, my ass. They just hark back to better days, when George ruled the known world. No, not that George, the other loony with a silly accent. That's why they still use this obsolete paper. Deep down, they want to be English, just like everybody else. Well, I'm sorry, until you learn how to pronounce 'schedule' you're all foreigners. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| big al | Mar 21 2006, 05:56 PM Post #21 |
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Bull-Carp
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Elaborate please, IT. It seems to me that a sheet size based on the golden ratio would be more aesthetically pleasing. A4 is based on sq rt of 2 and US sizes are even closer to square, so I'm not sure where you're headed with this statement. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| kenny | Mar 21 2006, 06:22 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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We are America. We have nuclear bombs. We are a Christian Nation. You WILL use 8.5 x 11 inch paper.
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| Lindy | Mar 21 2006, 06:29 PM Post #23 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Agreed. The A4 size is just too long and skinny for these American eyes |
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Kubota B-Series Tractors - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ringo - "I am the best drummer in the world." Lennon - "He's not even the best drummer in the band." | |
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| The 89th Key | Mar 21 2006, 06:35 PM Post #24 |
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Although if I had to pick one, I'd go metric...I must say that inches, gallons, feet, etc... are FAR more practical in some situation - probably why it started in the first place. For example...sheets of paper. Is the paper 9x12 (inches)? Or is it 34 x 187 (mm)? (Figures aren't meant to be accurate, just making a point...) Should we measure the acidic rainfall in hundreds of centrigrams, or in a couple ounces. How tall are you? 6 feet? Or 2.884537 meters? |
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| iainhp | Mar 21 2006, 07:22 PM Post #25 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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When I lived in London I shared a flat with 2 graphics artists. They preferred using 8.5 x 11 for product brochures - said it was more aesthetically pleasing. 11x17 = Two 8.5x11 sheets, etc.... (C size = 2 B size sheets, d size = 2 C size sheets) My problem is that CostCo doesn't print 8x10 photos anymore - they print 8x12. I wish someone would tell the frame manufacturers. |
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