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The Death Penalty
Topic Started: Mar 20 2006, 03:12 PM (647 Views)
John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Mar 20 2006, 06:46 PM
A coward in battle should be courtmartialed and shot

That particular example makes me extremely uncomfortable, particularly since I suspect I'd be pretty cowardly on a field of battle. I guess now that we don't have conscription, we should expect more from our soldiers, but still....

Who decides on what constitutes cowardice? In World War I, many people were disciplined and in some cases executed for exhibiting what would now be considered clear symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. Of course, the generals making the decisions were probably upset that the soldiers in question hadn't enabled them to move their drinks cabinets another 50 feet closer to the Champagne region of France, but that's a rant for another day.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I find myself in agreement with 89th. Labor camps.

Also, I find myself in agreement with John D'Oh regarding wartime cowardice. If a conscript in the middle of a war doesn't do his/her duty out of cowardice, then I think there are other actions that should be taken. Treason, however is a different story. If there is irrefutable evidence that a soldier is committing treason, and it's a war situation in a combat zone, the commanding officer should be able to put a bullet in the traitor's skull on the spot.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Phlebas
Mar 21 2006, 06:35 AM


When we execute the wrong people - which we no doubt have - we cannot take back that mistake.

We kill civilians in War.

This collateral damage is considered unfortunate but accepted as unavoidable for the larger purpose.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
kenny
Mar 21 2006, 08:37 AM
Phlebas
Mar 21 2006, 06:35 AM


When we execute the wrong people - which we no doubt have - we cannot take back that mistake.

We kill civilians in War.

This collateral damage is considered unfortunate but accepted as unavoidable for the larger purpose.

Preposterous. There must be a higher standard of care for a deliberative justice system than for decisions made in the fog of war.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
They are both killing for a purpose society considers justified.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
And that is where the similarity ends. The two issues bear no real relationship to each other.

Some people think it would be better for society to round up all the gays. I guess that would be ok too, as long as that's what society wanted.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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M&M's
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Fulla-Carp
Mikhailoh
Mar 21 2006, 09:14 AM
And that is where the similarity ends. The two issues bear no real relationship to each other.

Some people think it would be better for society to round up all the gays. I guess that would be ok too, as long as that's what society wanted.

Mik... :no: Play nice
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
M&M's
Mar 21 2006, 01:17 PM
Mikhailoh
Mar 21 2006, 09:14 AM
And that is where the similarity ends.  The two issues bear no real relationship to each other. 

Some people think it would be better for society to round up all the gays. I guess that would be ok too, as long as that's what society wanted.

Mik... :no: Play nice

Hey! Get back to work! Somebody in this family needs to make a living!
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
NO WAY!!!! :devilgrin: :cursing: :devil: :veryangry: :angry: :whistle: :pirate2: :tsktsk:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Gee, when you mention the word "gay" I suddenly get it.

Gosh, what was I thinking?

Now I can relate.

Thanks.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Aw, c'mon, you guys. I always bait Kenny when he starts acting too Reaganesque. :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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M&M's
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Fulla-Carp
Mikhailoh
Mar 21 2006, 09:20 AM
Aw, c'mon, you guys. I always bait Kenny when he starts acting too Reaganesque. :lol2:

:biggrin:
My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D
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The 89th Key
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This is a funny thread! :lol:

...and the poll is a tie! Even after 36 votes!!! :eek:
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Whack 'em and stack 'em. :pirate:

If guilt can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, especially with damning DNA evidence, I have no problems with the death penalty.

In fact, I have written many times that it is the most economical, and the most humane form of punishment for egregious crimes.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
John D'Oh
Mar 21 2006, 09:13 AM
ivorythumper
Mar 20 2006, 06:46 PM
A coward in battle should be courtmartialed and shot

That particular example makes me extremely uncomfortable, particularly since I suspect I'd be pretty cowardly on a field of battle. I guess now that we don't have conscription, we should expect more from our soldiers, but still....

Who decides on what constitutes cowardice? In World War I, many people were disciplined and in some cases executed for exhibiting what would now be considered clear symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. Of course, the generals making the decisions were probably upset that the soldiers in question hadn't enabled them to move their drinks cabinets another 50 feet closer to the Champagne region of France, but that's a rant for another day.

In times of war, esp if the nation's existence is at stake, I think an argument can be made where the state can demand that one risk his or her life to protect the overall common good. Refusal to fight is not an option, esp once on the battlefield. Today of course we have the awareness of stress induced disorders, and these can be evaluated and handled appropriately. But at some point, the fact is that a soldier has to know that they can either fight and hope to survive, or not fight and die. It's a tough call, but war is an extreme instance.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
ivorythumper
Mar 21 2006, 07:55 PM

In times of war, esp if the nation's existence is at stake, I think an argument can be made where the state can demand that one risk his or her life to protect the overall common good. Refusal to fight is not an option, esp once on the battlefield. Today of course we have the awareness of stress induced disorders, and these can be evaluated and handled appropriately. But at some point, the fact is that a soldier has to know that they can either fight and hope to survive, or not fight and die. It's a tough call, but war is an extreme instance.

This is a very complicated area, IMO. There's a difference between refusal to fight, for example, for religious and moral reasons (e.g. the Quakers in WWII) and because you're just a fraidy-cat. Someone who is truly a pacifist should, in my opinion, be allowed to do something other than fight. In Britain, many Quakers drove ambulances and fire engines in London during the Blitz, which was considerably more danger than most troops had to face.

I also think that more allowances may need to be made for someone who has been conscripted than for a professional soldier.

Has anyone seen the movie 'In the Name of the Father'? I remember at the time of the IRA bombings on the British mainland a huge amount of hysteria, and many politicians as well as the media calling for the death penalty to be reintroduced for terrorism. If it had been, quite a number of people would have been hanged who were later freed from gaol early due to unsafe convictions. Once someone is dead, attempts to prove their innocence tend to fade away, so we'd probably never have known.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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