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New plan for skid row; "most of it is a drug problem"...
Topic Started: Mar 18 2006, 09:58 AM (1,118 Views)
Nina
Senior Carp
I don't know what I would suggest that would work.

I'd be in favor of rounding them all up for a mandatory evaluation (not just medical) and med clinic. However I'm sure that all the hoopla you describe would invariably ensue.

I know of several families with members who are schizophrenic and homeless. To a person, absolutely none of them have any problem with mandatory medication for their relative. It's frustrating when ideology gets in the way of solving a problem.

As for the drug addicts, I'm less informed but the gist of Steve's article was that this problem may be reduced significantly by simply enforcing laws. That makes sense to me.

For the working poor who are homeless (or the want to work poor who are homeless), I'd love to see a full-scale program aimed at upskilling, training (and this would include very basic life skills stuff like how to get to a job, how to read a bus timetable, how to act on a job, etc.) and incentives for companies who hire low-income workers or locate portions of their business in low-income neighborhoods. I'd also like to see subsidized child care for working families, and subsidized housing. Yes, it's a lot of money but I do believe that in the long run it will save on social services.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Nina
Mar 21 2006, 11:24 AM


For the working poor who are homeless (or the want to work poor who are homeless), I'd love to see a full-scale program aimed at upskilling, training (and this would include very basic life skills stuff like how to get to a job, how to read a bus timetable, how to act on a job, etc.) and incentives for companies who hire low-income workers or locate portions of their business in low-income neighborhoods.  I'd also like to see subsidized child care for working families, and subsidized housing.  Yes, it's a lot of money but I do believe that in the long run it will save on social services.

Right here in Phoenix we have Ozanam Manor which does precisely what you describe. It is a very good program for those who want to help themselves.

A few bucks wouldn't hurt.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Let me give you folks an idea of what I mean by the lazy and worthless of society. Jolly can attest to what I'm about to tell you, I'm sure. I'm going to strip this of all polical correctness, and let the chips fall where they may. That's *one* of the problems - very few people have the guts to discuss the obvious. Call me a racist and I'll haunt you.....

New Orleans. Thousands of people living in government housing are in deep doo doo because they didn't have the gumption to get out. They sat around and waited on someone else to take care of things. Several points:

These people were spread out around the country and put up in motels on the public's dime. Fine. No problems there. But - what happened after that? Not one of them did anything to help themselves. They just stayed there waiting on someone else to fix their free homes for them so they could go back to them. I read a news article about how the majority of the motel owners wish now they hadn't accepted these people. They burnt up the carpets putting cigarettes out on the floor, ruined all the furniture, trashed the walls, the bathrooms, you name it. The motel owners didn't expect they would lose money, but the reality is that almost every single motel these people were housed in has had so much damage done to them that it will cost more to repair the properties than they were paid for letting these people stay.

Next: There is an area in New Orleans right now that's being called "Tent City". With our money, our tax dollars, the federal government has purchased thousands of tents to house workers, and are paying these workers $25.00 an hour to help rebuild New Orleans. That includes the free housing these motel trashing worthless excuses for humans will finally move back into. How many of these New Orleans welfare recipients do you think have taken advantage of these $25.00 an hour jobs - jobs that were created to help them rebuild their own home?

Not one. Not one single New Orleans welfare recipient has taken advantage of these jobs. Almost all the workers are Mexican immigrants. In the meantime, the welfare recipients have refused to move out of the motels, and many have had to be forced out. So the welfare nanny state has taught these people to sit on their butts and let us provide them housing and food, then sit down and wait on someone to save their sorry butts, then trashed the places they were provided with, then done nothing to help improve their own situation, and are even too lazy and dependent on others to take advantage of $25.00 an hour jobs - all while complaining that "we" aren't working fast enough.

What does this have to do with homeless people? Many of the homeless are just as lazy, just as worthless as these bums. There comes a point where you have to draw a line. If a person is able to help himself, he should be given a way to do that. But he should carry his weight. If a person isn't capable of helping himself because he/she is mentally ill, physically handicapped beyond the point of being able to do anything, that kind of thing, then yes, they should be helped - but not by government. What's going on in New Orleans is proof enough of that. Children - like I've said all the way through these discussions - children should be given every bit of help we can give them.

The welfare recipients of New Orleans who are capable of working but won't do not deserve one iota of assistance. And a lot more of them are capable of working than admit it.

There's more, but I'm not in the mood.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
God helps those who help themselves.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I think there is a lot of truth in some of what Larry says, and that people can develop a 'welfare mentality' leading to them becoming social parasites, for want of a better term. However, I think that those suffering from mental illness should be looked at outside of this equation. I have some personal experience with mental illness (no surprise there, you might think :) ), thankfully resolved, and without a very supportive family I shudder to think what could have happened.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Just so you didn't miss it...

Quote:
 
If a person isn't capable of helping himself because he/she is mentally ill, physically handicapped beyond the point of being able to do anything, that kind of thing, then yes, they should be helped - but not by government.


Quote:
 
Children - like I've said all the way through these discussions - children should be given every bit of help we can give them.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Oops, sorry, I missed the fact that you'd addressed mental illness.

Whether it should be the government or someone else who ensures these people are looked after is open to debate. I tend towards the view that it is the responsibility of government to do this. If the government can't effectively look after those most at risk, or at least ensure that someone else does, then it probably shouldn't be a government.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
It isn't the government's job. We have documents that outline what the government's job is, and that's not on the list. In fact, I believe that having the government inject itself into this issue at all hinders help coming from the directions is should come from.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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apple
one of the angels
The plight of the mentally and physically handicapped is generally pitiful. THey indeed should be helped if they need it. We would be barbaric to not address their needs.
it behooves me to behold
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Larry
Mar 21 2006, 04:42 PM
It isn't the government's job. We have documents that outline what the government's job is, and that's not on the list. In fact, I believe that having the government inject itself into this issue at all hinders help coming from the directions is should come from.

If they're not getting the help they need, then who ensures they get it? Someone needs to be held accountable and responsible, or it won't happen.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Nina
Senior Carp
Well, it hasn't been the government helping them for a few decades now. So whoever is helping them that isn't the government is doing a pretty carpy job.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/homeless/pr...s/shp/index.cfm

http://pathprogram.samhsa.gov/

http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offs...gov/hmless.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offs...gov/hmless.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offs...gov/hmless.html

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
If government does a bad job, then maybe we need to change the way they govern. This isn't a party political point, as they're pretty much all the same.

I don't actually care who does it, as long as it's done reliably, and effectively. This isn't an idealogical point, it's purely practical. OK, the current system sucks, let's fix it.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Whoever does it there will always be some form of regulation and oversight from the public sector. Nursing homes should be instructive in this regard.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Nina
Senior Carp
Here's a lengthy but good article on the state of mental health governmental assistance, for anyone who really wants to slog through it:

Mental Health: Promise Unfulfilled
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Had to go back to Page 3 to resurrect this one....

A problem with some of the reasoning in this thread gnaws at me...people tend to believe other people think just like they do, when often that is not the case. Or some well-meaning people tend to think that everyone can be "up-trained" for a better paying job.

Alas, I don't think that is the case. I'm afraid that some in the world, especially in the high-tech society of modern America, are incapable of performing intellectually at the $15-20/hr level. Perhaps in the manufacturing world, with repetitive, simple tasks....but not in today's bang-bang business world.

What does society do, in the case of the temporary homeless who are incapable of rising to the levels needed to make that $15/hr?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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