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| Speaking of losing weight.....; anyone tried any of the diet pills? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 24 2006, 08:35 AM (676 Views) | |
| Shammy | Jan 24 2006, 08:35 AM Post #1 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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The FDA just approved one but I have often wondered if any of them really work. Has anyone tried any of the new ones like cortislim, hydroxycut, etc.? AND WHY do all the people in the commercials look like they don't need diet pills?????? If posting on this board was a weight loss program... most of us would look like the poster children for anorexia by now! I have also looked at the ones promoted by the health food chains. Any thoughts on this??????
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I'd rather fall into chocolate. | |
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| kenny | Jan 24 2006, 08:43 AM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Eat less. Excercise more. You will know when you have mastered this when you lose weight. I haven't mastered it. ![]() IMHO the whole multibillion dollar diet industry is a scam. Eat Less. Excercise more. Nobody wants to hear this. |
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| Horace | Jan 24 2006, 08:51 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Ephedrine/caffeine pills really do work, but they're not very good for you. I think the gov't banned ephedrine too, last I heard. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Optimistic | Jan 24 2006, 08:59 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I was going to add my dos centimos, but this sums it up exactly (and probably much more concise than I would have done ).
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PHOTOS I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up. - Mark Twain We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -T. S. Eliot | |
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| ivorythumper | Jan 24 2006, 09:01 AM Post #5 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Someone just today was saying talk is cheap...
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| bachophile | Jan 24 2006, 09:19 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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as i get alot of forum questions on medical advice, ill post my personal opinion. WARNING:DO NOT USE DIET PILLS. THEY HAVE NO PROVEN EFFICACY AND CAN BE DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HEALTH. DO NOT BELEIVE ANY QUACK INFOMERCIAL. Primum non nocere. first of all, do no harm. kenny u r 1000% right. the only way to lose weight is to burn more then u consume. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Horace | Jan 24 2006, 09:25 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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There are plenty of studies that prove the effectiveness of ephedrine/caffeine pills. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| kenny | Jan 24 2006, 09:48 AM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Horace don't buy the pills. In 84 years we will learn more about the harm they do. If it sounds too good to be true. . . FDA is not here to protect you. FDA is a scam funded by industry. Use the money you would have spent on the pills to not buy that extra food you are not going to eat. :wacko: |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 24 2006, 09:54 AM Post #9 |
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Exactly...eat healthier, exercise more. Personally, I have a metabolic enhancer (with ginger root, caffeine (same amount as in coffee, ginko baloba, etc.) that's ephedrine-free and that has worked to give me energy while working out. But a metabolic enhancer is about as close to any "diet pills" as I'd like to go. |
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| bachophile | Jan 24 2006, 10:01 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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from the FDA's feb 2004 ruling.. Conclusion Multiple studies demonstrate that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids, like other sympathomimetics, raise blood pressure and increase heart rate. These products expose users to several risks, including the consequences of a sustained increase in blood pressure (e.g. serious illnesses or injuries including stroke and heart attack that can result in death). There is also a risk of increased morbidity and mortality from worsened heart failure and pro-arrhythmic effects. Although the pro-arrhythmic effects of these products typically occur only in susceptible individuals, the long-term risks from elevated blood pressure can occur even in nonsusceptible, healthy individuals. These risks are not outweighed by the known or reasonable likely benefits of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. These products do not provide a meaningful health benefit. The best clinical evidence for a benefit is for weight loss, but even there the evidence supports only a modest short-term weight loss insufficient to positively affect cardiovascular risk factors or health conditions associated with being overweight or obese. Other possible benefits, such as enhanced athletic performance, enhanced energy, or a feeling of alertness, lack scientific support and/or they would provide only temporary benefits that are trivial in comparison to the risks. and yes this was overuled by the courts... nontheless, ... "On April, 13, 2005, a United States Federal District Court overruled the ban of ephedrine in over-the-counter products. The key point to this reversal is that ephedrine can only be sold in amounts of 10 mg or less to be sold legally. This dosage is much less than what was sold in prior dietary supplements. Also, if ephedrine was deemed illegal at the state level, as it was in New York and California, state law rules supreme over this Federal Court's decision. Ephedrine's future on the U.S. dietary supplement market has yet to be definitively determined. In the meantime, ephedrine is in no way a miracle worker. Exercise and nutrition, as challenging as they are to decide, implement, and stick to, are still the most effective keys to weight loss" |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| musicasacra | Jan 24 2006, 10:01 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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oh, i guess that explains that photo i saw of you
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| Optimistic | Jan 24 2006, 10:22 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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One of those loose-fitting muscle shirts is probably about the only thing that would fit across that peculiar array of muscles. Gross. |
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PHOTOS I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up. - Mark Twain We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -T. S. Eliot | |
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| Horace | Jan 24 2006, 10:26 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I take neither caffeine nor ephedrine separately, much less together! I was just reponding to the contention that nothing was proven to work, which was incorrect. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| bachophile | Jan 24 2006, 10:28 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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the evidence supports only a modest short-term weight loss insufficient to positively affect cardiovascular risk factors or health conditions associated with being overweight or obese. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Horace | Jan 24 2006, 10:40 AM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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1.) Astrup A and Toubro S "Thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular responses to ephedrine and caffeine in man" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993, Vol 17 Suppl 1 Pg S41-3, PMID: 0008384179. 2.) Astrup A, Toubro S, Cannon S, Hein P, Madsen J "Thermogenic synergism between ephedrine and caffeine in healthy volunteers: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study" Metabolism 1991, Vol 40 (3), Pg 323-9, PMID: 0002000046. 3.) Toubro S, Astrup A, Breum L, Quaade F "The acute and chronic effects of ephedrine/caffeine mixtures on energy expenditure and glucose metabolism in humans" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993, Vol 17 Suppl 3 Pg S73-7; discussion S82. PMID: 0008124407. 4-BK.) Mowrey, Daniel B. Ph.D. "Fat Management : The Thermogenic Factor" Victory Publications, 1994. ISBN: 0-936261-07-2. 5.) Dulloo AG and Miller DS "Screening of drugs for thermogenic anti-obesity properties: antidepressants" Ann Nutr Metab 1987, Vol 31 (2), Pg 69-80, PMID: 0003592617. 6.) Dulloo AG and Miller DS "Thermogenic drugs for the treatment of obesity: sympathetic stimulants in animal models" Br J Nutr 1984, Vol 52 (2), Pg 179-96, PMID: 0006477859. 7.) Massoudi M, Evans E, Miller DS "Thermogenic drugs for the treatment of obesity: screening using obese rats and mice" Ann Nutr Metab 1983, Vol 27 (1), Pg 26-37, PMID: 0006830140. 8.) Dulloo, AG "Ephedrine, xanthines and prostaglandin-inhibitors: actions and interactions in the stimulation of thermogenesis." Int J Obes 1993 Feb, Vol 17 (Suppl 1), Pg S35-40, PMID: 0008384178. 9.) Liu YL, Toubro S, Astrup A, Stock MJ "Contribution of beta 3-adrenoceptor activation to ephedrine-induced thermogenesis in humans" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep, Vol 19 (9), Pg 678-85, PMID: 0008574280. 10.) Toubro S, Astrup A, Breum L, Quaade F "The acute and chronic effects of ephedrine/caffeine mixtures on energy expenditure and glucose metabolism in humans." Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993 Dec, Vol 17 (Suppl 3), Pg S73-7; discussion S82, PMID: 0008124407. 11-NA.) Dulloo AG and Stock MJ "Ephedrine in the treatment of obesity" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993, Vol 17 Suppl 1 Pg S1-2, PMID: 0008384172. 12.) Dulloo AG, Duret C, Rohrer D, Girardier L, Mensi N, Fathi M, Chantre P, Vandermander J "Efficacy of a green tea extract rich in catechin polyphenols and caffeine in increasing 24-h energy expenditure and fat oxidation in humans" Am J Clin Nutr 1999, Vol 70 (6), Pg 1040-5. PMID: 0010584049. 13.) Astrup A, Breum L, Toubro S, Hein P, Quaade F "The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1992, Vol 16 (4), Pg 269-77. PMID: 0001318281. 14.) Breum L, Pedersen JK, Ahlstrom F, and Frimodt-Moller J. "Comparison of an ephedrine/caffeine combination and dexfenfluramine in the treatment of obesity. A double-blind multi-centre trial in general practice." Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1994 Feb, 18(2):99-103, PMID: 0008148931. 15.) Lazarou J, Pomeranz BH, and Corey PN. "Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta- analysis of prospective studies." JAMA. 1998 Apr 15; 279(15):1200-5, PMID: 0009555760. 16-NA.) "Alternative medicine--how safe is it? [editorial]" Adverse Drug React Toxicol Rev 1998 Nov, Vol 17 (4), Pg 205-7, PMID: 10196625. 17.) Young JB and Macdonald IA. "Sympathoadrenal activity in human obesity: heterogeneity of findings since 1980." Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1992 Dec; 16(12):959-67, PMID: 0001335975. 18.) Bryde Andersen H, Raben A, Astrup A, Christensen NJ "Plasma adrenaline concentration is lower in post-obese than in never- obese women in the basal state, in response to sham-feeding and after food intake" Clin Sci (Colch) 1994, Vol 87 (1), Pg 69-74. PMID: 0008062522. 19-NA.) Andersen HB, Raben A, Astrup A, Christensen NJ "Plasma adrenaline increases during sham-feeding in normal subjects but not in post-obese women" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993, Vol 17 Suppl 3 Pg S96; discussion S97. PMID: 0008124413. 20.) Curran PK and Fishman PH "Endogenous beta 3- but not beta 1-adrenergic receptors are resistant to agonist-mediated regulation in human SK-N-MC neurotumor cells" Cell Signal 1996, Vol 8 (5), Pg 355-64, PMID: 0008911684. 21.) Langin D, Tavernier G, Lafontan M "Regulation of beta 3-adrenoceptor expression in white fat cells" Fundam Clin Pharmacol 1995, Vol 9 (2), Pg 97-106, PMID: 0007628838. 22.) Lipworth BJ "Clinical pharmacology of beta 3-adrenoceptors" Br J Clin Pharmacol 1996, Vol 42 (3), Pg 291-300, PMID: 0008877018. 23.) Nantel F, Bouvier M, Strosberg AD, Marullo S "Functional effects of long-term activation on human beta 2- and beta 3- adrenoceptor signalling" Br J Pharmacol 1995, Vol 114 (5), Pg 1045-51, PMID: 0007780639. 24.) Dulloo AG and Miller DS "The thermogenic properties of ephedrine/methylxanthine mixtures: human studies" Int J Obes 1986, Vol 10 (6), Pg 467-81, PMID: 0003804564. 25-NA.) Pasquali R and Casimirri F "Clinical aspects of ephedrine in the treatment of obesity" Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1993, Vol 17 Suppl 1 Pg S65-8, PMID: 0008384185. 26.) Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, Christensen NJ "Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man" Am J Clin Nutr 1985, Vol 42 (1), Pg 83-94, PMID: 0004014068 |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| bachophile | Jan 24 2006, 10:57 AM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i actually read the atsrup and toubros papers (the only serious authors in your list) before i posted, the original papers, not the abstracts. very unimpressive science. thats why they are in those journals and not the new england journal of medicine. (impact factor-Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 3.5, impact factor -NEJM, 34.8.) short term weight loss as an endpoint is fine when u r pushing a drug but not when u r pushing health. i stand by my comments 100%. (if u r going to quote medical literature to me, i suggest u read them first) |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Shammy | Jan 24 2006, 12:08 PM Post #17 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Bach... any info on the natural ingredient Hoodia? |
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I'd rather fall into chocolate. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 24 2006, 12:27 PM Post #18 |
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Shammy! No need to yell! I hoodia fine the first time!
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 24 2006, 12:34 PM Post #19 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Pant.. pant.. just got back from my four mile walk on the river bike trail! Gorgeous!!!! Dog likes it too. Better physically, metabolically and emotionally than any drug. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 24 2006, 12:51 PM Post #20 |
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Sounds awesome!!! |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 24 2006, 01:09 PM Post #21 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Exercise more and eat less is a great formula, but it isn't the root formula. The root formula is burn more calories, consume fewer calories. Exercise helps you burn calories in three ways. The act of exercising uses calories, but, in addition, exercise helps to raise metabolism, thus burning more calories even when you aren't exercising. The third way is by building muscle ... muscle burns more calories, even in a resting state, than fat, so increasing your muscle mass also increases your metabolic rate, even when you aren't exercising. Going back to the root formula, though, if there were a drug that could help you burn more calories, and if it were safe (big ifs), that drug would help you to lose weight. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| JBryan | Jan 24 2006, 01:28 PM Post #22 |
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I am the grey one
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I thought it was the beginning of a Quicksilver Messenger Service song. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| George K | Jan 24 2006, 01:44 PM Post #23 |
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Finally
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The problem with most peoples' perceptions is that if something is advertised as "natural" it is considered, by many, to be safe. Aspirin is "natural" Digitalis is "natural" Cocaine is "natural" All can be lethal.
I found the comment about ephedra being lowered to "only 10 mg." to be amusing. What's to stop some teenage girl with a body-image problem from taking 10 of these pills, or 20? Who's going to NOT let her buy that much? No one. Ephedrine is among the nastiest out there - arrhythmias of the heart, stroke, blood pressure problems are all common with this drug. Ephedrine works by increasing metabolism - ALL metabolism: heart rate, blood pressure, and central nervous system. It acts as an anorexic the same way as the "diet pills" of the 1950's, without the effectiveness, and with no regulation. When a "herbal" medication - and make no mistake, it is a medication - is marketed as "natural" it avoids the scrutiny of the FDA which required medications to be safe and effective, which "regular" medications must. There are many, many interactions between the so-called "natural supplements" and medications prescribed by your doctor. These interactions can cause uncontrolled blood pressure, bleeding after surgery, and a host of other problems. In fact, there's a version of the PDR (Physicians' Desk Reference of Medications) for "Herbals and Supplements." It's about 2 inches thick. In my (not so humble) opinion, they are dangerous and potentially lethal. My apologies if I've duplicated some of Bach's ideas, but this is something I feel very strongly about. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| bachophile | Jan 24 2006, 01:50 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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i modestly and humbly step aside to your better understanding of the effect of sympathomimetics, since thats more your ballpark then mine. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| George K | Jan 24 2006, 01:51 PM Post #25 |
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Finally
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Anyone who's been taking any herbal medication in the last two weeks will not see the inside of my operating room. No exceptions other than life or limb-threatening emergencies. Edit: Add references - http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/06/anesthesia.herbs/ http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/de...iles/78782.html http://www.asahq.org/Newsletters/2000/02_00/herbal0200.html |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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6:47 AM Jul 11