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South Dakota to ban abortions?; ...the perfect law.
Topic Started: Jan 23 2006, 07:56 AM (4,186 Views)
John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 10:58 AM

It is also a fallacy, since there the exclusion of an analogical predicate because of it historical contigency or political import is not itself reasonable. All that can be said is that it must be used more carefully and circumspectly.

Which it hasn't been in most of the abortion arguments I've seen. Himmler has already been mentioned on at least one occasion above, and this is one of the more civilised threads.

I didn't actually understand your first sentence but I'm sure you're right. :)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:08 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 07:58 AM

It is also a fallacy, since there the exclusion of an analogical predicate because of it historical contigency or political import is not itself reasonable. All that can be said is that it must be used more carefully and circumspectly.

Is this a joke?
Do you know regular words too?
You sound ridiculous.

Almost like you think fancier words help win an argument.

Sorry, I try to hold my tongue about this, but this one was a real doosie!

You could write for Dilbert.

Kenny:

If you want me to speak down to you because you are stoopid just let me know. :wink:

If people are smart enough to try to formulate something like "Godwin's Law" or use it in conversation, they should be smart enough to understand the limits of it as well.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
is it responsible to grab a random poll off the internet and cite it because it shows the results you like, without checking on those relevant questions?


Of course not. But do you seriously doubt that a great majority of the country is in favor of some form of right to abortion? Perhaps with limitations, such as for minors ... but do you really doubt that a big majority favors allowing women to make an educated choice about abortion?

If you doubt it, then you're allowing wishful thinking to cloud your judgment.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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The 89th Key
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John D'Oh
Jan 24 2006, 10:48 AM
The 89th Key
Jan 24 2006, 09:53 AM
John D'Oh
Jan 24 2006, 08:50 AM
apple
Jan 24 2006, 12:20 AM
is it just about the vilest, grossest, inhumane, diabolic thing we do as humans?    To tell you the truth i view cannibalism (of the already naturally dead of course) as a more acceptable behavior..

I think dropping bombs on children is considerably worse. You can argue that we're not aiming for them, but before anybody wages a war, they know that innocents will die, so whether it's done on purpose becomes irrelevant.

I would say that the level of actual pain and suffering caused by some stray napalm is considerably higher than anything achieved by a surgeon in America today.

John,

2,100 American Soldiers have died in the last 26,000 hours.
The SAME number of babies were aborted in the last 12 hours.

I wasn't talking about the Iraq war and I wasn't talking about American soldiers. I also wasn't talking about the numbers. I was talking about the amount of pain and suffering caused by war as being a greater evil than that of abortion.

Which is worse - aborting a 12 week old fetus, or dropping napalm on an 8 year old child?

Which one was done intentionally?

Killing the baby or killing the boy?

Which one happens more (to the tun of 2,100 times more)?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 08:15 AM
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:08 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 07:58 AM

It is also a fallacy, since there the exclusion of an analogical predicate because of it historical contigency or political import is not itself reasonable. All that can be said is that it must be used more carefully and circumspectly.

Is this a joke?
Do you know regular words too?
You sound ridiculous.

Almost like you think fancier words help win an argument.

Sorry, I try to hold my tongue about this, but this one was a real doosie!

You could write for Dilbert.

Kenny:

If you want me to speak down to you because you are stoopid just let me know. :wink:

If people are smart enough to try to formulate something like "Godwin's Law" or use it in conversation, they should be smart enough to understand the limits of it as well.

Oh, you think it is about being smart and knowing words?

Wise people see through smoke screens, and don't need to use them.
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musicasacra
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Jan 24 2006, 09:15 AM
Quote:
 
is it responsible to grab a random poll off the internet and cite it because it shows the results you like, without checking on those relevant questions?


Of course not. But do you seriously doubt that a great majority of the country is in favor of some form of right to abortion? Perhaps with limitations, such as for minors ... but do you really doubt that a big majority favors allowing women to make an educated choice about abortion?

If you doubt it, then you're allowing wishful thinking to cloud your judgment.

i'm speaking of south dakota in particular, quirt.

i only moved away from there 2 years ago. i have an idea what's going on there. it's not an abortion-friendly state.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:17 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 08:15 AM
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:08 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 07:58 AM

It is also a fallacy, since there the exclusion of an analogical predicate because of it historical contigency or political import is not itself reasonable. All that can be said is that it must be used more carefully and circumspectly.

Is this a joke?
Do you know regular words too?
You sound ridiculous.

Almost like you think fancier words help win an argument.

Sorry, I try to hold my tongue about this, but this one was a real doosie!

You could write for Dilbert.

Kenny:

If you want me to speak down to you because you are stoopid just let me know. :wink:

If people are smart enough to try to formulate something like "Godwin's Law" or use it in conversation, they should be smart enough to understand the limits of it as well.

Oh, you think it is about being smart and knowing words?

Wise people see through smoke screens, and don't need to use them.

Kenny:

I wrote that because I am certain that you are not stoopid.

Some people have more ease with words or with concepts or with spatial relationships or with mathematics. Frank and Moonie and Aqua can spout off all sorts of things about science that leave my head spinning.

I would never insult them by telling them that they sound ridiculous because I didn't understand them.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
I would never insult them by telling them that they sound ridiculous because I didn't understand them.


naw. just tell them they are benighted.


i like that word.

i always wanted to be sir bachophile. and now i truly am.

(my knighthood, brought to u from the same folks who gave us the enlightened st. john crysotom)
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
i'm speaking of south dakota in particular, quirt.

i only moved away from there 2 years ago. i have an idea what's going on there. it's not an abortion-friendly state.


In that case, I take your point. I was talking nationally. I have no doubt that there are geographical pockets where abortion is opposed by a majority. I just don't think they represent the national average.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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John D'Oh
Member Avatar
MAMIL
The 89th Key
Jan 24 2006, 11:16 AM

Which one was done intentionally?

Killing the baby or killing the boy?

Which one happens more (to the tun of 2,100 times more)?

I repeat, I wasn't talking about Iraq, but since you insist on dragging up this number, considerably more than 2100 people have died in Iraq.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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musicasacra
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
QuirtEvans
Jan 24 2006, 09:25 AM
Quote:
 
i'm speaking of south dakota in particular, quirt.

i only moved away from there 2 years ago. i have an idea what's going on there. it's not an abortion-friendly state.


In that case, I take your point. I was talking nationally. I have no doubt that there are geographical pockets where abortion is opposed by a majority. I just don't think they represent the national average.

i agree, south dakota is not representative of the country as a whole on the question of outlawing abortion.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
bachophile
Jan 24 2006, 09:23 AM
Quote:
 
I would never insult them by telling them that they sound ridiculous because I didn't understand them.


naw. just tell them they are benighted.


i like that word.

i always wanted to be sir bachophile. and now i truly am.

(my knighthood, brought to u from the same folks who gave us the enlightened st. john crysotom)

So you don't think that contemporary understandings of fetology and embryology should speak into the rabbinic traditions? For G-D sakes, even the Catholics think that religious expression needs to accommodate scientific insight!
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
You are missing my point.
I no longer see life as a competition for smarts.
(Otherwise I'd never have posted that.)

Whether I understand or not is not the point.

There are styles of speaking and writing that distract from the subject at hand.
89 gets distracted when people say aks instead of ask.

I'm just giving you feedback on something I'm sure many people feel about how you write but are too nice to mention.

Just trying to help you along, Bud.
But write however you want.
Didn't mean to piss you off.
And sorry for the hijack.
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bachophile
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Quote:
 
So you don't think that contemporary understandings of fetology and embryology should speak into the rabbinic traditions? For G-D sakes, even the Catholics think that religious expression needs to accommodate scientific insight!



no, because i dont think the issue is a "medical" one as u so wisely pointed out in the other thread.

and furthermore..

"And the difference between fetal life and human life is not determined by the biologist or the physician but by the metaphysician. It's the determination of the culture or the religion that declares not when life begins but when life begins to be human." (Health and Medicine in the Jewish Tradition)

but we've been through this before. i know where u r coming from and u know where i am coming from. shall we leave it at that?

sir IT.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
bachophile
Jan 24 2006, 09:34 AM
Quote:
 
So you don't think that contemporary understandings of fetology and embryology should speak into the rabbinic traditions? For G-D sakes, even the Catholics think that religious expression needs to accommodate scientific insight!



no, because i dont think the issue is a "medical" one as u so wisely pointed out in the other thread.

and furthermore..

"And the difference between fetal life and human life is not determined by the biologist or the physician but by the metaphysician. It's the determination of the culture or the religion that declares not when life begins but when life begins to be human." (Health and Medicine in the Jewish Tradition)

but we've been through this before. i know where u r coming from and u know where i am coming from. shall we leave it at that?

sir IT.

You misunderstand (or misstate) me. Abortion (unless truly curative as in the case of an ectopic pregnancy) is not a "medical issue" -- however, fetology and embryology certainly are and can only be practiced by licensed medical doctors.

Without rehashing the arguments, you know well the problem of letting a culture determine what is human life and when it begins and what rights it ought have.

So we can let it lie (for now).

Shalom,

Steve
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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bachophile
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
shalom

"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 08:20 AM
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:17 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 08:15 AM
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:08 AM
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 07:58 AM

It is also a fallacy, since there the exclusion of an analogical predicate because of it historical contigency or political import is not itself reasonable. All that can be said is that it must be used more carefully and circumspectly.

Is this a joke?
Do you know regular words too?
You sound ridiculous.

Almost like you think fancier words help win an argument.

Sorry, I try to hold my tongue about this, but this one was a real doosie!

You could write for Dilbert.

Kenny:

If you want me to speak down to you because you are stoopid just let me know. :wink:

If people are smart enough to try to formulate something like "Godwin's Law" or use it in conversation, they should be smart enough to understand the limits of it as well.

Oh, you think it is about being smart and knowing words?

Wise people see through smoke screens, and don't need to use them.

Kenny:

I wrote that because I am certain that you are not stoopid.

Some people have more ease with words or with concepts or with spatial relationships or with mathematics. Frank and Moonie and Aqua can spout off all sorts of things about science that leave my head spinning.

I would never insult them by telling them that they sound ridiculous because I didn't understand them.

If I may butt in for a minute, this is how I see it;

Kenny writes to be understood.
IT writes to demonstrate knowledge.

Not saying one style is better than the other, in fact I enjoy the contrast, it makes this place interesting. But it is crystal clear that the intent behind your writings is different.

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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Good observation Sue.

Why write, if not to be understood?

I also don't see the point of writing to demonstrate access to knowledge.

I guess I'm self confident, and only get my validation through silly polls. :lol:
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
sue
Jan 24 2006, 10:03 AM

Kenny writes to be understood.
IT writes to demonstrate knowledge.

Not saying one style is better than the other, in fact I enjoy the contrast, it makes this place interesting. But it is crystal clear that the intent behind your writings is different.

You have no grounds for making that judgment. I write to explain in the way that I think. I also write with the intended readers in mind and this is a highly educated, articulate and informed group of people.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 24 2006, 09:15 AM
sue
Jan 24 2006, 10:03 AM

Kenny writes to be understood.
IT writes to demonstrate knowledge.

Not saying one style is better than the other, in fact I enjoy the contrast, it makes this place interesting. But it is crystal clear that the intent behind your writings is different.

You have no grounds for making that judgment. I write to explain in the way that I think. I also write with the intended readers in mind and this is a highly educated, articulate and informed group of people.

I aplogise. I wasn't clear, and phrased that wrong. What I meant is that I feel your intent is to educate, and share your knowledge. Not saying that's a bad thing.
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musicasacra
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
i don't fault IT for using occasional big words when delving into complex issues. i've met so many people with ph.d.s -- especially in academia -- who use unfamiliar or big words in discussing a complex subject. i don't think it's generally intended to show knowledge (though it can be). they have had to conduct so much research and documentation, develop theories, debate and defend, etc., that their language must be precise, carefully chosen, and backed up by sources.

if i hear a word i don't understand, i either ask the person or grab a dictionary. i take it as an opportunity to learn.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
sue
Jan 24 2006, 10:21 AM

I aplogise. I wasn't clear, and phrased that wrong.  What I meant is that I feel your intent is to educate, and share your knowledge. Not saying that's a bad thing.

OK, Sue. :hug:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
musicasacra
Jan 24 2006, 09:24 AM
if i hear a word i don't understand, i either ask the person or grab a dictionary. i take it as an opportunity to learn.

Actually, I do too. :wink:

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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 10:28 AM
musicasacra
Jan 24 2006, 09:24 AM
if i hear a word i don't understand, i either ask the person or grab a dictionary.  i take it as an opportunity to learn.

Actually, I do too. :wink:

See -- I new you wernt stoopid. :wink:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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sue
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
kenny
Jan 24 2006, 09:28 AM
musicasacra
Jan 24 2006, 09:24 AM
if i hear a word i don't understand, i either ask the person or grab a dictionary.  i take it as an opportunity to learn.

Actually, I do too. :wink:

Me too. And I've used it a lot lately. :wink:
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