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| South Dakota to ban abortions?; ...the perfect law. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2006, 07:56 AM (4,189 Views) | |
| musicasacra | Jan 23 2006, 03:08 PM Post #101 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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hey, don't go comparing south dakota to berkeley! :lol: |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 23 2006, 03:10 PM Post #102 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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That's where I am, Kathy. Let them overrule Roe. Let a few states outlaw abortion. And wait for the backlash. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jan 23 2006, 03:23 PM Post #103 |
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Bull-Carp
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Thanks but I found it already in translation. Strangely enough the Islamic view is almost identical. And the Eastern Orthodox, while very uneasy about it, defers to the Judaic view and leaves the ultimate decision to the parents of the unborn in consultation with their pastoral father (priest) and without deprivation of the sacraments of the Church. Yes, although we have shortage of labour here, we are fussy. |
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| kathyk | Jan 23 2006, 03:29 PM Post #104 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Well, the question seems pretty straight forward to me: On abortion are you pro-life or pro-choice. Here's the poll I was citing. Poll As to why there's only one abortion clinic in SD, I can only guess, but a couple of possibilities: It's such a small state, there's no need for more than one 2) the pro-life advocates are a violent, scary and down-right intimidating bunch with big guns. As to AC's question whether making something that one does legally in another state a crime for a citizen of another state would fly squarely in the face of states' sovereignty. You want to see another civil war in the US? Try pulling that one off. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| musicasacra | Jan 23 2006, 03:32 PM Post #105 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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people in south dakota are not violent and scary. the abortion clinic in SD does not get violent or nasty protests. that would be considered uncivilized by such a quiet people. that poll link didn't provide info on who conducted the poll, what questions were asked, how the questions were asked and explained by the phone pollers, who paid for the poll, etc. those are all relevant questions when examing poll results. |
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| kathyk | Jan 23 2006, 03:34 PM Post #106 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Click on the link for SD and you will see the question and a lot of other data. I don't vouche for the poll - I just googled it. Find another. I didn't say people in SD are violent and scary - I said the pro-life advocates. Again, I have no idea - I'm only guessing, here. But, I do know that there has been horrible violence perpetrated against abortion clinics, their staff and patrons by so-called right to lifers. I can only imagine that if there's a paucity of clinics in SD, that this might be a factor. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| musicasacra | Jan 23 2006, 03:36 PM Post #107 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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the site doesn't answer the questions i raised. i'm off to MBA class. then to pick up steve at the airport.
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| AlbertaCrude | Jan 23 2006, 03:40 PM Post #108 |
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Bull-Carp
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No that wasn't my question. My question was whether a resident of SD went to another state and had an abortion then returned home. Would that SD resident be liable for prosecution on SD law for having procured an abortion? Musicascra answered it and without the hubbub and hysteria you, as usual, impute into what people write. Please read carefully- you'll get barked at and barked at less. |
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| kathyk | Jan 23 2006, 03:43 PM Post #109 |
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Pisa-Carp
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And that was the question I answered, Mr. Smarty Pants. You can't charge someone in your own state of a crime for something they did legally in another state. Simple enough for you? (you must really want to win that poll :wacko: ) |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| musicasacra | Jan 23 2006, 03:43 PM Post #110 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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no it isn't a factor. like i said, violent behavior in south dakota would not be tolerated. they are a quiet people. they use legislation. what is a factor: it's a pro-life state. abortion is not accepted by the communities. if patients know their doctor performs abortions, the patients switch doctors. doctors know they can't have a successful practice in south dakota and perform abortions. |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 23 2006, 03:45 PM Post #111 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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AC -- I think it would be possible (even though Kathy appears to disagree) for a state like South Dakota to prohibit its residents from crossing state lines to procure an abortion. What they could NOT do is prohibit a South Dakota resident from moving to another state. That's a constitutional prohibition. So, to get the abortion, you might have to relocate. Moreover, if you're in the first trimester, and assuming you know about the South Dakota law, hopefully you wouldn't be dumb enough to tell anyone that you're pregnant. You use a home pregnancy test, take an unscheduled vacation to Minnesota, and come home. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| kathyk | Jan 23 2006, 03:48 PM Post #112 |
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Pisa-Carp
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It must be nice to live in a state with no violent crime. Quirt, it's been awhile (quite awhile) since I studied constitutional law, and I'm not exactly sure on which article or amendment to pin it, but I do believe that you can't prosecute someone in your own state for a crime committed outside your state; even if it's a crime in the other state. It's the other state's perogative whether to prosecute or not, and they'd have to extradite you to get you back in that state to pursue it. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| musicasacra | Jan 23 2006, 03:50 PM Post #113 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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do you remember the thread a while ago regarding south dakota's one abortion clinic? here's an excerpt from that washington post article and a link to the entire article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...22600747_2.html |
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| kathyk | Jan 23 2006, 03:57 PM Post #114 |
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Pisa-Carp
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As I said, I can only surmise. But, unlike Jolly, I do take stock in statistics. Sure, they can be skewed, but I have no reason to doubt the veracity of those I posted here. They're taken from a survey site that looks to be without an agenda - not a political site . And, the question was clear enough: "On abortion are you pro-life or pro-choice?" Of the 582 SDs polled, 49% said the former, 47% said the latter, and 5% were undecided. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 23 2006, 04:07 PM Post #115 |
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Anyone else find it funny that when a woman's pregnant, people "can feel the baby kicking" but when it comes to abortion, those same people will just say the baby is nothing but cells...a "medical procedure"? :lol: Gotta love the libs!
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| John D'Oh | Jan 23 2006, 04:11 PM Post #116 |
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MAMIL
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89th, you don't feel the baby kicking in the first trimester. Anyone find it funny that all the pro-lifers like bombing Arabs? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| George K | Jan 23 2006, 04:14 PM Post #117 |
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Finally
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Abortion is MURDER, and I'll KILL the sonofabitch that disagrees with me! |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| sue | Jan 23 2006, 04:25 PM Post #118 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Can you help me out and tell exactly where this is from? My knowledge of religion is pretty limited, I'm afraid. But this quote was refreshing, acknowledging a 'grey area' as bach said. |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jan 23 2006, 04:49 PM Post #119 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I think you are pretty close to what he is talking about, AC as well as what John Paul II was talking about. It tended to be the popular media who picked this up and made it sound as if it was all intended primarily as an attack on abortion. While this was part of it, John Paul II as well as Benedict are speaking of something much more fundamental -- the loss of dignity of the individual human being in a modern capitalistic society which seems to place a $ value on everything and where human beings are seen as simply a cog in the wheel of production or a consumer of what is produced. I think, however, both of them are missing some of what I believe to be hopeful signs. Perhaps it is their age and a certain nostalgia for old time values. But I see much that I think is hopeful. I see the changing choice of women for how they will live their life, now that extreme feminism is dying down, as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the teaching of children to think rather than just memorize as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the increasing tolerance of cultures and religions and non-religious belief systems as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the movement towards equality for gay men and for lesbians as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the increasing sense of spirituality within the Western World as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the overthrow and rejection of authoritarian communism in most of the world to be as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the massive explosion of free speech and the free flow of information from the bottom up, rather than the top down that the Internet is bringing us as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the condemnation of war by most of the industrialized society as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the movement away from ant-semiticism within the Christian world as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the willingness and ability of the average individual to challenge authority as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the massive advances being made by science to free us of sickness and disease -- and the growing movement in the world to extend these benefits to even the poorest of nations as a sign of increasing human dignityl I see the growth of both faith-based and secular international societies, with averagge men and women giving up their lives to work among the poorest of the poor to fight poverty and destitution in the third world as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the internationalization of space and the recognition that we are one world as a sign of increasing human dignity. I see the move towards being good custodians of the earth rather than exploiters of natural resources as a sign of increasing human dignity. Overall I think the world is moving to a better place. Slowly, incrementally, as it always has done. But I expect the world 100 years form now will be as much better a place from today as today is from 1906. There is much to be concerned about and I think John Paul II and Benedict have hit upon what needs to be our most basic concern as a society -- the loss of human dignity within the economic market place. But if all we do is focus on the problem and fail to see the immense movement towards good in this world, we are not seeing the entire picture. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| M&M's | Jan 23 2006, 04:52 PM Post #120 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Opt: Why do you think abortion is wrong for yourself? |
| My child shows GOOD CHARACTERIZATION in an ongoing game of D&D | |
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| bachophile | Jan 23 2006, 04:57 PM Post #121 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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to sue.. where exactly? if u must know, its from the mishna, and involves the concept of rodef or pursuer. the idea is, if something is threatning to your life, equivalent to someone chasing u to kill u, that pursuer can be stopped. the idea is that the fetus does not have a black or white identity, human or not, ensouled or not. it is clearly alive and has clear importance. yet at the same time, abortion is not "murder" in the classic sense, otherwise abortion should NEVER be permitted, because murder is never an allowable action. and so, the jewish construct is a grey area, there is a very jewish notion that some things cannot be quantified into yes or no, black or white. rather, like an electrons spin, its actually sort of a cloud of potentiality, which can be seen in varying shades of grey. here is a small text resource, for more u can go to... Jewish Attitudes Towards Abortion Jewish doctrine on abortion: allowable, even required, when the life of the mother is at stake Given that abortion does not equate to murder - in the case of threat to the mother's life, abortion becomes a requirement: |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jan 23 2006, 04:57 PM Post #122 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Actually, whether this is what South Dakota is doing or not, I don't know, Kathy. But it likely may be. There is a movement in several states to adopt legislation with the sole purpose of being sued and getting the matter back to the Supreme Court NOT to argue if this restriction or that one is acceptable, but to force the Court to reconsider the basics of Roe V Wade. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jan 23 2006, 05:00 PM Post #123 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Yes, one is subject to the laws of the state in which one does something. As an example, the moment I leave California and go to Nevada, I am subject to Nevada laws for what I do there, not California laws. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jan 23 2006, 05:02 PM Post #124 |
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Bull-Carp
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Thank you QuirtEvans. That's all what I wanted to know.
Read QuirtEvans' response above. It was directed to my question: "If S.D. has a law prohibiting abortions can a resident still leave the state and have one performed elsewhere then return without the possibility of prosecution?" You answered: "As to AC's question whether making something that one does legally in another state a crime for a citizen of another state would fly squarely in the face of states' sovereignty. You want to see another civil war in the US? Try pulling that one off." As I said earlier that wasn't my question. I think you're a spinning idiot. |
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| QuirtEvans | Jan 23 2006, 05:09 PM Post #125 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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It's been a while for me too, but I believe there's a difference between telling the people of South Dakota that they cannot evade South Dakota requirements by leaving the state to engage in activity that would be illegal in South Dakota, and trying to prosecute the conduct that occurred in the other state. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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