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South Dakota to ban abortions?; ...the perfect law.
Topic Started: Jan 23 2006, 07:56 AM (4,179 Views)
DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
LWpianistin
Jan 25 2006, 05:31 PM
my head hurts. there are so many useless bickering arguements in here :rolleyes2:

my question is this: if they do bring this law in that will allow an abortion to save the mother, will the procedure even be performed in the delivery room, when the child is at full-term? sorry if that has already been discussed, but i didn't feel like hunting through all 13 pages.

I'm not a doctor (duh...blonde soprano, bout as far from it as it gets) but I can't imagine a scenario in which a doctor would need to abort a *full term* infant in a delivery room in order to save the mother's life. A C-section to deliver a live baby the mother can't deliver due to structural problems or other health issues, yeah, but in what case would delivering a dead fetus at that stage of the game be beneficial to the mother's health?
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LWpianistin
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HOLY CARP!!!
DivaDeb
Jan 25 2006, 09:06 PM
LWpianistin
Jan 25 2006, 05:31 PM
my head hurts. there are so many useless bickering arguements in here :rolleyes2:

my question is this: if they do bring this law in that will allow an abortion to save the mother, will the procedure even be performed in the delivery room, when the child is at full-term? sorry if that has already been discussed, but i didn't feel like hunting through all 13 pages.

I'm not a doctor (duh...blonde soprano, bout as far from it as it gets) but I can't imagine a scenario in which a doctor would need to abort a *full term* infant in a delivery room in order to save the mother's life. A C-section to deliver a live baby the mother can't deliver due to structural problems or other health issues, yeah, but in what case would delivering a dead fetus at that stage of the game be beneficial to the mother's health?

ok. i noticed that it was a bad example of what i wanted to say....i'll try again.

i just want to know at what point in the pregnancy would an abotion be unnecessary, and a C-section possible?
And how are you today?
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DivaDeb
HOLY CARP!!!
Bach...George? When's viability?
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Moonbat
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Quote:
 

i was specifically addressing kathyk's remark that my faith will change because i am so poorly misinformed. that directly comments on the strength of my faith -- is that a subject for public dissection and critique?


But new information can alter peoples views; you might find that when you have children you care about them more than you had imagined possible and because of that, in your mind the balance in value between children vs. embryos might shift. Maybe not, maybe you're views will stay the same, but why is suggestion of the former scenario so unreasonable?

I also don't see why altering ones views when provided with new information implies weakness, on the contrary i think it implies strength afterall it is so much easier to stick with the views we are comfortable with, even if it means bending reality around them, than to accept our error and change views we had previously held strongly.

Quote:
 

but digging in and questioning the strength of someone's faith is entirely different. do you see the difference?


Well not exactly, i mean i think there are ways of doing things and maybe "digging" is not the best approach, but i don't see why asking questions about the nature of someone's views and what might change them is somehow wrong and hence should be 'off the menu'.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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George K
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Finally
DivaDeb
Jan 26 2006, 12:53 AM
Bach...George? When's viability?

Changes every year.

In the early 80's 28 weeks or so was the limit. Now, it's about 19-20. However, that says nothing about the type of life that these kids will live (and perhaps for a short time, at that). Underdeveloped lungs, GI problems, brain immaturity, cardiac defects, etc.

When an infant is born so prematurely, there's usually a reason and a cause: Something else is wrong with the fetus and it can no longer develop to term.
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

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- Klaus, 4/29/18
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kathyk
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musicasacra
Jan 25 2006, 04:10 PM
i was specifically addressing kathyk's remark that my faith will change because i am so poorly misinformed. that directly comments on the strength of my faith -- is that a subject for public dissection and critique?

yes, religion and the different views about it are very good to discuss. we can learn a lot about and from each other.

but digging in and questioning the strength of someone's faith is entirely different. do you see the difference?

Like a moth drawn to light, here I am replying to this thread, against my earlier resolve to leave it alone. It may come to you as a surprise, but I actually find no pleasure in these futile sparring matches. But when I see my words so misconstrued, I can't stop myself. I did not question your faith, my dear. I questioned your adulation of a woman who chose her death and the resultant abandonment of her children in order to bring a fourth motherless child into the world. I respect your faith -I question your perspective on this particular issue.
And that is my last word on the issue - promise.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
89th said...
Quote:
 
I can't wait for RvW to be overturned. I GUARANTEE it'll happen soon.


LOL, what a funny boy u r.

let say it was overturned tommorow.

that doesnt make abortion illegal, all it does is give the states the right to decide.

now, like capital punishment i guess, there will be some states that will be more strict the others. but i GUARANTEE that anyone wanting an abortion in say texas (just an example) and needs a abortion, will simply cross state lines. so the number of abortions wont change, just the locations.

anyway, dont hold your breath young man, it aint gonna happen tommorrow. and probably not anytime soon.

but i hope, sincerly hope, u learned a lesson to read and get eductated before u start pontificating...(excuse the choice of word)

Posted Image

"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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George K
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Finally
Quote:
 
now, like capital punishment i guess, there will be some states that will be more strict the others. but i GUARANTEE that anyone wanting an abortion in say texas (just an example) and needs a abortion, will simply cross state lines. so the number of abortions wont change, just the locations.



And so turns the Great Mandala. The thread has come back to the original subject of the first post.
(ain't life grand...).

bach - still not asleep.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
poor george.

thats why u get the big bucks...
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
bachophile
Jan 26 2006, 09:10 AM

but i hope, sincerly hope, u learned a lesson to read and get eductated before u start pontificating...(excuse the choice of word)

Posted Image

He looks strangely familiar.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
This is now the 3rd longest one here, 2nd if you discount the "Fastest Growing Thread" thread.
Only nine eight more posts and it's a record.

C'mon! You can do it!

(I'm sorry, I'm tired)
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George, how did you find out those statistics?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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George K
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Finally
(seven more!)

Look at the message list and sort by number of replies.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Oh, I see. Yes, very clever.

Anyway, cold out this morning, wasn't it?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
post whores, all of u.

anything for more posts.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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George K
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Finally
Where's NAK when we need him?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George, I noticed that I just passed you in the 'which idiot's wasted the most time' competition, aka 'top ten posters of all time'. I think I need to post less. This thread's really helping that resolution.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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musicasacra
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HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Jan 26 2006, 06:54 AM
musicasacra
Jan 25 2006, 04:10 PM
i was specifically addressing kathyk's remark that my faith will change because i am so poorly misinformed.  that directly comments on the strength of my faith -- is that a subject for public dissection and critique? 

yes, religion and the different views about it are very good to discuss.  we can learn a lot about and from each other.

but digging in and questioning the strength of someone's faith is entirely different.  do you see the difference?

Like a moth drawn to light, here I am replying to this thread, against my earlier resolve to leave it alone. It may come to you as a surprise, but I actually find no pleasure in these futile sparring matches. But when I see my words so misconstrued, I can't stop myself. I did not question your faith, my dear. I questioned your adulation of a woman who chose her death and the resultant abandonment of her children in order to bring a fourth motherless child into the world. I respect your faith -I question your perspective on this particular issue.
And that is my last word on the issue - promise.

when you patronizingly guaranteed i would change my beliefs about what i would do in that grave situation -- you were stating my faith would change. clearly my beliefs and the decision i would make drawn from them are faith-based. and so were St. Gianna's, who you appeared to criticize for committing an "immoral decision." (i asked you more than once to clarify your statement about her in case it was misinterpreted but you did not.)
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
bachophile
Jan 26 2006, 06:10 AM
89th said...
Quote:
 
I can't wait for RvW to be overturned. I GUARANTEE it'll happen soon.


LOL, what a funny boy u r.

let say it was overturned tommorow.

that doesnt make abortion illegal, all it does is give the states the right to decide.

now, like capital punishment i guess, there will be some states that will be more strict the others. but i GUARANTEE that anyone wanting an abortion in say texas (just an example) and needs a abortion, will simply cross state lines. so the number of abortions wont change, just the locations.

anyway, dont hold your breath young man, it aint gonna happen tommorrow. and probably not anytime soon.



Couple of thoughts...

As access is denied, the number of abortions will drop. If you'd like to counter that statement, please show me some concrete statistics for number of abortions/1000 population both pre and post RvW.

Secondly, Roe may not die tomorrow, but South Dakota is showing that you can kill it with a thousand cuts...somehow, ironically just.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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kathyk
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George K
Jan 26 2006, 06:46 AM


This is now the 3rd longest one here, 2nd if you discount the "Fastest Growing Thread" thread.
Only nine eight more posts and it's a record.

C'mon! You can do it!

(I'm sorry, I'm tired)

'kay - I'll bite. Here's a new twist - at least for me - maybe you've parsed this one already. Someone on this thread - can't remember who, maybe AC, said that abortions should not be available for birth control. I'd like to know how a pro-life person would define that; specifically, what does "abortion as birth control" mean?
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
I have said in past I am unreservedly against abortion as a means of birth control and may have repeated the same in this thread. I'll quote a line form Wilde's The Importance of Earnest to illustrate wht it means:

Lady Bracknell: "My dear Mr. Worthing, to lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune but to lose two seems like plain carelessness."
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Who broke the record? KK or AC?
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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