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proselytism / missionaries
Topic Started: Jan 12 2006, 06:19 PM (825 Views)
Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
You are a true believer with a child-like faith 89th.

"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11.

When I was a child I had a child-like faith in God. When I became a man I put away childish things.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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pianojerome
Jan 12 2006, 11:41 PM
The 89th Key
Jan 12 2006, 11:34 PM
pianojerome
Jan 12 2006, 11:29 PM
"I do not see the need to worship anything."

"Oh, it's wonderful Mark..."

"How?  How can worshipping a God that you can't prove exists be so wonderful?"

"Well, it adds a sense of structure and meaning to life.  It helps to explain a lot of questions, including what happens after we die."

"But you can't prove that any of that is true, and there are still other questions."

"True, but believing in God not only provides me with possible answers, it also gives me something to confide in when times are rough - someone non-human to talk to and express my feelings."

"I've tried that in my youth, and it didn't do anything for me.  Wouldn't it be better to seek comfort and help from someone you love, rather than from a God who never directly answers your prayers, and who may not even exist?"

....


No mention of the other person needing to convert or "try" religion.  But a good discussion, nonetheless.

Yes, but you are keeping the discussion on the earthly level. You and I both know there are more (and more important) things when having a relationship with God. Things that can't be explained to non-believers as they'd call you nuts.

You shouldn't try and "sell" God based on what He can do for your feelings, or life. IMO, that's the wrong way to go about it. Sometimes expressing your faith and what it means will lead to you talking over someone's head...about faith, forgiveness, mercy, a divine love, salvation, etc...things that aren't going to be proven scientifically, but can be proven in your heart.

That's the problem, 89th.

I'm not talking about selling God. I'm not talking about trying to convince someone of anything.


I'm just talking about having a discussion, without implying that the other person should try religion (or in Mark's case, try again).

You recall all of our discussions that I began about Christian subjects. And I hope you know by know that I'm not considering Christianity, and I'm very happy with Judaism. But I learned a tremendous amount from those discussions, and I know others learned a tremendous amount as well (about Christian points of view and my own and others' points of views). They were great discussions that often lasted quite a few pages (sometimes over 100 posts). No suggestions of people trying Christianity, or converting, but still really great discussions of religion.

I agree, and they are some of the most substantive threads we've had. I mistook (is that a word?) your recent post as a "way" you would witness to a non-believer. I'm all for educated and informative discussions about a myriad of subjects.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Mark
Jan 12 2006, 11:41 PM
You are a true believer with a child-like faith 89th.

"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11.

When I was a child I had a child-like faith in God. When I became a man I put away childish things.

I'm afraid quoting the Bible in support of Atheism is not going to work, Mark. ;)
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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Mark
Jan 12 2006, 11:41 PM
You are a true believer with a child-like faith 89th.

I'm sorry...you have no room to talk about faith.

EDIT: Not that there's anything wrong with having a child-like, pure faith...as long as you're a true believer. We are all children of God.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
I know JBryan.

89th would probably be surprised to learn that I have read the Bible from cover to cover twice in my life so far.
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The 89th Key
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I admire that, I'd like to do that one day...
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Mark
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The 89th Key
Jan 12 2006, 08:44 PM
I'm sorry...you have no room to talk about faith.


Why? Because I don't think like you do?

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The 89th Key
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Actually, yes.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
So... can I talk about faith?
Sam
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Right!

You would get nowhere fast.

About as far as those who proselytize get with me.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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pianojerome
Jan 12 2006, 11:53 PM
So... can I talk about faith?

Yes, my point is if you don't have faith...how could you claim to know the level or type of faith someone else has?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
If you have faith why would it matter.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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The 89th Key
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Mark
Jan 12 2006, 11:53 PM
Right!

You would get nowhere fast.

About as far as those who proselytize get with me.

Don't you ever find it a bit odd how much energy you spend trying to deny a God that you don't believe in anyway?
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
The 89th Key
Jan 12 2006, 11:55 PM
pianojerome
Jan 12 2006, 11:53 PM
So... can I talk about faith?

Yes, my point is if you don't have faith...how could you claim to know the level or type of faith someone else has?

But I don't have faith in Jesus, and you and I think very differently on many issues.
Sam
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The 89th Key
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Yes, but we both have faith in God...which is the subject right now.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
The 89th Key
Jan 12 2006, 11:56 PM
Mark
Jan 12 2006, 11:53 PM
Right!

You would get nowhere fast.

About as far as those who proselytize get with me.

Don't you ever find it a bit odd how much energy you spend trying to deny a God that you don't believe in anyway?

Don't you ever find it a bit odd how much energy you spend trying to convice a guy who won't believe anyway?
Sam
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The 89th Key
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When have I tried to convince Mark?
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Huh?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have had various levels of faith during my 43 years.

I suspect the current one will change at some time.

I am a dynamic indivudual. Open minded to all possibilities.

Currently I hold the position that a god can not possibly exist.

That can change at any time.

Being closed minded is not seeking the truth. It is believing that which your are told by others. This I never do.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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The 89th Key
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Ok, at least we're on the same page then...I thought you were close-minded to the chance that God exists. I see that you're not now...although it's your current position.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
The 89th Key
Jan 12 2006, 08:56 PM
Don't you ever find it a bit odd how much energy you spend trying to deny a God that you don't believe in anyway?

No.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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apple
one of the angels
has anyone mentioned the missionary position?
it behooves me to behold
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The 89th Key
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Ok gotta get back to work....God bless! Err, umm...I mean, have a good night. ;)
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
apple
Jan 13 2006, 12:03 AM
has anyone mentioned the missionary position?

Hey, now this is starting to get interesting.... :P
Sam
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Seek out the truth.

Do not blindly accept that which is spouted from another's mouth or written in a book that someone else believes is the word of a god.

My search for the truth thus far has resulted in my atheism.

I have not stopped seeking the truth. I suspect I never will.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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