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| proselytism / missionaries | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2006, 06:19 PM (822 Views) | |
| pianojerome | Jan 12 2006, 06:19 PM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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to proselytise: "To attempt to convert another person to your beliefs." (definition from http://www.religioustolerance.org/) EDIT: Let me rephrase the question. "How do you feel about other people trying to convert others to their own religion, if the other people are not interested?" (I think 'should' is too strong of a word to use.) The implication is that it's not just asking once or twice, but making it a goal to try and convince them. |
| Sam | |
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| kathyk | Jan 12 2006, 06:23 PM Post #2 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I think it's a carpy idea. I've never liked those kind of peeps (cept my grampa - but there was blood there). I mean it's one thing to not hide your light under a bushel barrel, it's a whole nuther thing to try to burn another's fulcrum with it. |
| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| John D'Oh | Jan 12 2006, 06:24 PM Post #3 |
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MAMIL
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I think people should mind their own damn business. I don't want saving. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jan 12 2006, 06:24 PM Post #4 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Depends on what you mean. People eventually have to make the choice for themselves, but there's nothing wrong with trying to educate others. EDIT ...PROVIDED this is a welcome exercise, and it doesn't p!ss anyone off. Those guys can really get on my nerves sometimes. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| pianojerome | Jan 12 2006, 06:28 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If someone asks to be "educated," then why not? Then it's no different from someone asking to be educated about mathematics or music. But if the person does not ask for it, and is clearly not interested, then the one proselytizing should back off immediately. It soon feels like a sort of harassment, not kind, loving "education." |
| Sam | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 12 2006, 06:34 PM Post #6 |
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I think Aqua and PJ covered it. We as Christians are called to spread God's love and His message. But in the end, it's up to the non-believer to open their hearts. But yes, we should make an effort, generally in the guidelines Aqua and PJ said.
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| Optimistic | Jan 12 2006, 06:39 PM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That gets to be too invasive, and usually ends up creating more antagonism towards what you are trying to persuade the person into. I have a good friend who is agnostic. We discuss religion sometimes, and she invites my views. However, back in high school, some of our other friends were committed to their faith, their youth group, and bringing people into both. Not just making invitations, but literally dragging people into it. My friend really did not appreaciate them trying to "save" her, and became, I think, even more against religion. |
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PHOTOS I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up. - Mark Twain We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -T. S. Eliot | |
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| pianojerome | Jan 12 2006, 06:44 PM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Eh... a clarification. I don't think "Christians are called to spread God's love and His message" and I don't think that they (or Jews, or Muslims...) "should make an effort" to convert others. If someone says to you, "89th teach me about Christianity," then yes, teach him. But if nobody asks, don't make it your goal to go out and convert everyone. |
| Sam | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 12 2006, 06:47 PM Post #9 |
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If no one asks you, and you still feel called to spread the Good Word with that person, it doesn't hurt to make an attempt. Obviously if they curse at you and threaten you, then you should back off...if they start crying because you're talking to them or making sense, then you did a good thing. And I think there's a slight semantics issue here...I don't think you should try and "convert" someone...rather, you should spread the message, so that they have a basic knowledge/opportunity to learn more, etc. |
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| pianojerome | Jan 12 2006, 06:51 PM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If they start crying, it's because they're so frustrated and fed up, because they are uninterested and are feeling harassed, and they just want the missionary to leave them alone. Not a good thing, Isaac.
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| Sam | |
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| DivaDeb | Jan 12 2006, 06:51 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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What I believe is that God presents opportunities for prepared believers to present the gospel to unbelievers. You can't force His hand and the believer can't convert anyone. The Holy Spirit works to soften hearts and make things that are spiritually discerned understandable to unregenerate man. Sometimes the opportunity lasts for years. I have several friends of very long standing who (I guess) love me a lot because when they say, "Now Debbie...I suppose you think that's a God thing, huh?"....I tell them yes and proceed to explain just exactly how/why it is a God thing. And they pat me on the head. We've had literally years of nice discussions about my faith because it's part of who I am and they really do not want to know me superficially, they want to know what I think, so I tell them even if they don't understand or agree. I do not argue but I do try to be ready to make a defense to everyone who asks me to give an account for the hope that is in me, yet with gentleness and reverence.
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| John D'Oh | Jan 12 2006, 06:52 PM Post #12 |
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MAMIL
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I should clarify my rather rude earlier response. I don't have a problem with people telling me about their beliefs in a discussion, in fact I find it very interesting to learn about what people believe. I do, however, object most strongly to being accosted on my way to and from the pub by someone who feels compelled to indoctrinate me into his or her world, when I'd really rather be somewhere, indeed anywhere, else. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| pianojerome | Jan 12 2006, 06:54 PM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Deb, that I would agree with. If someone asks, then why not tell? But I am bothered by missionaries who don't just respond to my questions, but who make it their duty to try and "educate" me. Particularly the ones who don't even know me. |
| Sam | |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 12 2006, 06:58 PM Post #14 |
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Or maybe it's because you have them in a headlock and are saying "SAY JESUS! SAY JESUS!"
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| The 89th Key | Jan 12 2006, 07:00 PM Post #15 |
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Deb, correct me if I'm wrong...but as opposed to what PJ said (sorta), I don't think you meant that opportunities only present themselves by someone ASKING you.....correct? |
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| DivaDeb | Jan 12 2006, 07:02 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I used to hate it when the Jehovah's Witnesses showed up on my porch. Then I figured out that if I start telling them what *I* think when they say something I don't agree with, they peel out so fast they leave skidmarks |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jan 12 2006, 07:02 PM Post #17 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Absolutely merited, John. My father was replacing the shingles on our roof when one of these individuals graced our doorstep. He was curt (but fairly polite) with the young lady, and told her he's not interested (and I should say that my father, like me, is Roman Catholic). The girl actually came back 20 or so minutes later, crying! Sobbing! She finally calmed down to ask in a cracked voice "why -- why were you so mean to me???" My father calmly, slowly, put down his hammer, looked down to stare right at her, and said "'cause I don't wanna have to deal with your sh!t, lady!" It was classic.
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jan 12 2006, 07:04 PM Post #18 |
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Bull-Carp
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I think that it is a bad idea when Protestants try to convert Catholic and Orthodox Christians. I also do not like when they try to convert Jews. What they do the rest is their business. I won't even discuss what I think about cults. |
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| John D'Oh | Jan 12 2006, 07:08 PM Post #19 |
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MAMIL
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Anyone tempted to begin the conversion process uninvited should, IMO, spend 10 minutes or so contemplating how they feel about the Hari Krishnas who accosted them in the bus station last Saturday afternoon. Do you really want to be a member of that unloved group? Well, OK then...Hari Krishna, Hari Krishna, Hari Rama, Hari Rama! (repeat ad nauseum and beyond) |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Amanda | Jan 12 2006, 07:08 PM Post #20 |
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Senior Carp
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What happened to "witnessing" to your faith by the exemplary way you live - including how you deal with others? |
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| kenny | Jan 12 2006, 07:08 PM Post #21 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It is one of the most arrogant and insulting things humans do to each other. It should be illegal. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jan 12 2006, 07:08 PM Post #22 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I try to tell the 7th Day Adventists that we're in the same league and division, just different conferences, so there's no need to attack one another, but I don't think they watch too much NCAA basketball, either.
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| John D'Oh | Jan 12 2006, 07:10 PM Post #23 |
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MAMIL
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It's almost as bad as Party Political Broadcasts, or, as you say over here 'This message was paid for by the friends of Dick Cheney...'. As if Cheney has any friends. :rolleyes: |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| DivaDeb | Jan 12 2006, 07:11 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Nope...sometimes they do ask specifically, other times the opportunities open up without a direct question. Often times for me it's as a result of just being honest about where I am and what I've been doing. If people ask me, they're going to hear the phrase "studying the Bible" often enough that they're eventually going to decide I'm really not the sort of person they want to be with, or they're going to say "Why?" Then I get to tell them. Sometimes the best thing to do is wait. Be salt and light for a while and let them come to know you. I think He uses us in different ways though...He gave us very individual personalities and strengths and expects us do the best with what we're given. The most important thing is always to be respectful and keep your sense of humor. God has one too and it's fun to watch what happens sometimes. |
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| The 89th Key | Jan 12 2006, 07:11 PM Post #25 |
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That is, actually...the best way, IMO. |
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and proceed to explain just exactly how/why it is a God thing. And they pat me on the head. We've had literally years of nice discussions about my faith because it's part of who I am and they really do not want to know me superficially, they want to know what I think, so I tell them even if they don't understand or agree. I do not argue but I do try to be ready to make a defense to everyone who asks me to give an account for the hope that is in me, yet with gentleness and reverence.

10:58 AM Jul 11