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What is American music?
Topic Started: Jan 12 2006, 12:50 PM (339 Views)
pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
'Any music that is written by Americans is American music.'

Agree or disagree?



'Any music that is not written by Americans is not American music.'

Agree or disagree?
Sam
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
  'Any music that is written by Americans is American music.'


Disagree.

Quote:
 
'Any music that is not written by Americans is not American music.'


Agree.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
'If Americans can write non-American music, then why cannot non-Americans write American music?'

or

'If Americans cannot write non-American music, then why can non-Americans write American music?
Sam
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Aqua Letifer
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Quote:
 
'If Americans can write non-American music, then why cannot non-Americans write American music?'


Depends on what you mean by "American". Do you mean, a legal citizen, or someone who's grown up there?

Quote:
 
'If Americans cannot write non-American music, then why can non-Americans write American music?


I suppose the concern still applies. Depends on what you mean by American.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Ben
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I find it interesting that in Spanish they have a word meaning American in the sense of from the United States of America because to simply say 'American' means anyone from North or South America. (American in the larger sense is americano, American in the USA sense is estadounidense)

I'm assuming you're asking these questions using American to refer to things from the USA though, and so my answers to your questions would be yes and no. :)
- Ben

"Playing 'bop' is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing." - Duke Ellington

bennieloohoo@gmail.com
Or you can just PM me. :P
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pianojerome
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So what is American music? That's the real question.

Is American music just music that is written by Americans (i.e. people living in the United States, or people who were born in the United States, or other people who for some reason or another identify themselves as Americans)? Or is there something else to it?
Sam
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Aqua Letifer
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Well, it's prob'ly also got to reflect American culture as well.

What is American music? Easy:

Posted Image

The Boss.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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pianojerome
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Aqua Letifer
Jan 12 2006, 04:30 PM
Well, it's prob'ly also got to reflect American culture as well.

In what ways?

Do the lyrics have to mention something about the United States? How about songs that don't have lyrics?
Sam
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JoyceB
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Ben
Jan 12 2006, 01:28 PM
I find it interesting that in Spanish they have a word meaning American in the sense of from the United States of America

You mean "gringo"?
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Aqua Letifer
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Well, in all seriousness, I dunno if you can define American music in general, and it would be a lot easier to pick examples that would fall into that category. For example, jazz, country, and bluegrass are all "American" styles of music, but they're so diverse it wouldn't be right to put them into one single "American" category.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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AlbertaCrude
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pianojerome
Jan 12 2006, 01:31 PM
Aqua Letifer
Jan 12 2006, 04:30 PM
Well, it's prob'ly also got to reflect American culture as well.

In what ways?

Do the lyrics have to mention something about the United States? How about songs that don't have lyrics?

Somehow I can't imagine Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, despite the opening with solo clarinet, being classified as Klezmer or Russian/Jewish music. Same goes for Irving Berlin's songs.
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JoyceB
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It's a style thing.
You can be non-American, and write rags.
You can be American and write mazurkas.

Some non-Amercans are better at writing American music than others - and vice versa.

It's not a lot more complicated than that.
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AlbertaCrude
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You can even be non American and write and play Bluegrass!
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pianojerome
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JoyceB
Jan 12 2006, 04:39 PM
It's a style thing.
You can be non-American, and write rags.
You can be American and write mazurkas.

Some non-Amercans are better at writing American music than others - and vice versa.

It's not a lot more complicated than that.

Can there be such thing as an American mazurka or an American symphony that is uniquely American?

It seems to me that, while the style may be individaul to the United States, any mazurka or symphony would be considered 'Euopean' classical music.


And similarly, any rag would be considered some style of American music. Even if a Chinese composer were to write a rag that sounded stylistically different from American music (maybe using a pentatonic scale, for instance), then it would still be a rag, and it would still be a form of American music, but it would just be Chinese "American music."
Sam
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JoyceB
Junior Carp
Again, it's a style thing.

It's has nothing to do with where you were born, and everything to do with how well you do it.
I make really good authentic ossa bucco with gnocchi, and am not at all Italian.

If a Chinese guy writes a a blues tune, and it doesn't sound like American blues, it's not American. If he does, it is American.
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AlbertaCrude
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If it doesn't sound like Blues- it probaby isn't. If it sounds like Blues, it is Blues regardless of the writer's nationality.
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big al
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AlbertaCrude
Jan 12 2006, 01:44 PM
You can even be non American and write and play Bluegrass!

A tip of the hat, AC :hat:

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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AlbertaCrude
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Thanks Al. Actually we may do an impromptu MP3 recording this weekend now that we've snared a high tenor vocalist who plays a pretty good rhythm guitar to boot. The only problem is, is that he tends towards Dobro (tm) and banjo hostile keys like B Flat and F.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
Here's my long response to my own question (:D) after having thought about this for several hours:


Whatever music that is composed by Americans is American music. That is the simple answer, although the early American composers were not so much concerned about simply composing music in America, but rather about creating a distinct style of music that was entirely different from all European art music. Unfortunately, however, I do not think that these early composers really understand what they wanted. In their attempt to create a uniquely “American” music, distinct from European music, MacDowell and Beach wrote (European) symphonies, and (European) concertos, and (European) piano miniatures. Dvorak thought one could create truly distinct American music by incorporating “American” folk themes, although this is no different from Brahms using Hungarian themes, and Tchaikovsky using Russian themes, and of more importance the forms are all the same. Dvorak also suggested placing accents in unusual places, and making use of various modes, yet all of this has already been done quite a bit in European music. None of this could have possibly made music uniquely “American”: all that these composers achieved, in my view, was to create new European music, with a new American flavor, just as the Russians, French, Germans, and Italians had composed their own individual styles of European classical music.

As I understand it, although this is what they achieved, these early American composers did not want (or they thought that they did not want) an ‘American’ style of European art music; what they really wanted was a style of music entirely separate from that whole genre. This implied a necessary break from the various forms of European art music – a break from composing symphonies, sonatas, and fugues for the concert hall, regardless of individual style; and indeed, over the decades of Americans writing music, this shift in form created several new, distinct, ‘American’ musics. Jazz, bluegrass, rock and roll, and rap were all uniquely American inventions, with new ‘American’ instrumentations and styles, that were not (I assume) found at all in the vast corpus of European classical music. Although rock and roll, rap, and popular music have now spread throughout the world, they are all still known by the name of ‘American’ popular music.

Thus, music composed (or, one would instead say ‘written’, as ‘composed’ was a term used exclusively to describe music in the style of the European classical traditions) for a festival of American music could be written in any of these uniquely American styles that have evolved over the years: rap, rock and roll, jazz, blues, disco, blue grass, country, heavy metal, or popular music. There would not be a necessity of quoting old melodies and rhythms, or making use of particular modes and scales (except perhaps those traditional to particular forms of American music), or even references to American society itself, although a great deal of American music does, in the form of lyrics and musical ‘onomatopoeia”, describe or comment on life in America. None of these unoriginal “differences” make American music truly unique and separate from European traditions. What is truly unique about American music are the genres and the innovations, outside of the realm of classical music. What is truly unique are the results of the decades of experimentation – the creation of new forms, new styles, new instrumentations, and new idioms, all of which are entirely separate from the vast corpus of European classical genres, and all of which have come to comprise that which is truly “American” music.

(It's also a short essay for my musicology class. Two birds with one stone. :cool:)
Sam
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