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Is this really true?; ...quick math about presidents.
Topic Started: Dec 6 2005, 11:39 AM (639 Views)
The 89th Key
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Aqua Letifer
Dec 6 2005, 05:10 PM
Okay. Tell me again then, how you're not a GOP cheerleader, as John suggested earlier?

Burden of proof is on you...if you want to accuse me of being a cheerleader. I already explained a few times why I'm not.

I'm fair.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
89th, I'm not here to join in the cheerleader debate, I just wanted to say that is the worst example of photoshopping I have ever seen on your avatar.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
*falls over laughing*
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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The 89th Key
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Good...cause I didn't use photoshop. I did it here at work with Microsoft Paint. :lol:

I actually was going to fix it, but figured it was so outrageous, that I would leave it as it added to the humor.

I believe I just cropped it out of Phykell's avatar?
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Well, you obviously don't see what I'm getting at, although I think KB does.

"the GOP has won 9 out of 14 (64%), including 7 out of the last 10 (70%)."

You're not viewing the past presidents as being affiliated with a political party, what you seem to be doing is just plaing saying the GOP won those elections. Well, that's not quite correct. I also think this is a bad way of viewing things. And when I asked you if this idea of yours is an "us vs. them" political philosophy, you said yes. Well, I think this is quite bad. That's the kind of grade school political thinking that shouldn't ever be endorsed, IMO. It's not ever "us vs. them". What you SHOULD do (and what you claim to do), is treat each political party and candidate objectively, and not blindly fall in with one or the other.

That's what I was driving at.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
<devils advocate>
I understand what you're saying AL, but would disagree.
I think following a candidate based on a specific issue is near-sighted and "elementary" as you say.

If you truly believe one political party better portrays your ideals, then you should vote for that party, understanding that it will have the greatest effect long-term.

</devils advocate>

"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
I understand what you're saying AL, but would disagree.
I think following a candidate based on a specific issue is near-sighted and "elementary" as you say.


Ahh, but are there just those two choices? To be more clear, IMO, one should view ALL the issues (or at least, the ones you care most about), and see how that candidate's actions support (or do not support) your own personal political ideals.

I'd say that yes, you should align yourself with a political party, but since that's not nearly as black and white as it first appears to be, the best bet is to take everything case-by-case. That's the only way to make sure who you're voting represents you. After all, (in theory) the political parties aren't being appointed, it's the candidates themselves who make the decisions.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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Not only that...but Aqua, when only 2 parties win elections, it's inevitably us vs them, hot vs cold, or any other bi-metaphor you want to use.
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The 89th Key
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Aqua, a cheerleader cheers for their party (team) no matter what happens. I'm not doing that here.

But currently, in the modern state of politics (since FDR), the GOP is definitely the party that I'm most closely aligned with...so when they win most of the elections, I wanted to point that out.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm all for looking at other political systems ... but for now we have a bi-partisan democratic republic, and I think it's naive to vote solely on hot-button issues.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
...so when they win most of the elections, I wanted to point that out.


Do they win the elections? Wouldn't it be more correct to say this or that candidate won them? Who's in charge after they're elected?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
The candidate is a member of the party.
The candidates are not working or even thinking independently.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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The 89th Key
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Aqua Letifer
Dec 6 2005, 05:34 PM
Quote:
 
...so when they win most of the elections, I wanted to point that out.


Do they win the elections? Wouldn't it be more correct to say this or that candidate won them? Who's in charge after they're elected?

Yes, it would, and I already explained to you that I said "GOP" instead of being more specific because I thought (and knew) you would know what I meant. And you did.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
The candidate is a member of the party.
The candidates are not working or even thinking independently.


BAH. If you want to find a contrast, it's easy enough to do.

Go to the DNC or RNC website and view their platform. It's hard to get specific information from there sometimes, but eventually you should find their stance on most of the major issues.

Then go to senate.gov, whitehouse.gov, issues2000.org, or any other political record website and see if a candidate's actions support their party's positions.

THAT's why I'd rather endorse an individual than a political party.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
But you're making my point.

If people voted based on their party, there would be little confusion with regards to this issue.

You vote to put forth your "version" of how you feel society should be run. A single person never has enough power or influence to do this, at least not in the long term.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
If people voted based on their party, there would be little confusion with regards to this issue.

You vote to put forth your "version" of how you feel society should be run. A single person never has enough power or influence to do this, at least not in the long term.


I'm not sure what you mean here. What I'm suggesting is, candidates never fall perfectly in line with their political party, regarding how they handle key issues. It's not about the party's power or influence, it's about picking the person who best represents your ideals, and I'm saying that the only way to know that is look at that candidate's past actions. Just looking at their political party doesn't help nearly as much, since they're not always in synch.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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Aqua, I do agree that you should vote for the person who best represents your ideals...but IMO that *usually* will be within the same political party.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
usually, says you. not necessarily, says I.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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Potato potato. I think they mean the same thing...in this context.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Well, that's not at all what I meant, then. You think political candidates usually have the same ideals as their political parties. I say there's no way of knowing, and that's not something you should ever bank on.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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The 89th Key
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Of course, no one is saying that you should bank on that.

But in general, GOPers and Dems will hold similar views on key issues, relatively. AKA abortion, capital punishment, involvement of religion, sh!t...take a look at the iraq war or supreme court nominations, and even better example!

No one is saying it's absolute.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
No one is saying it's absolute.


I never said that, either. There are some pretty diverse Republicans, as there are Democrats. So I personally will seldom look at the political affiliation of any candidate before I vote for them.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Good for you AL ...

At least you're voting. That's why we each get one, so we can each use it precisely how we want to.

"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
89th, you may be independent, you may be open-minded, and I am not going to quibble (right now anyway) about whether you're fair.

But you are not moderate.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
*grin*
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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