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| Democrats coming unhinged; As if you couldn't tell that already | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 3 2005, 12:15 AM (1,519 Views) | |
| Tim the Enchanter | Nov 3 2005, 03:02 PM Post #51 |
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Advanced Member
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![]() Click here for suspense music - intermission music - suspense music: http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/movi...ail/ra/23-07.ra |
| Summoning up fire without flint or tinder since 1974. | |
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| Jolly | Nov 3 2005, 03:03 PM Post #52 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Here's the problem.... Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures...if one studies the upheaval at the time, such as the Draft Riots, maybe Licoln had good reason to suspend habeus corpus...I think it may be argued that without that suspension, the Stars and Bars might well be flying over more than one state capitol, and Old Glory over a precious few.... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Nov 3 2005, 03:41 PM Post #53 |
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Bull-Carp
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And would that necessarily be a bad thing? |
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| John D'Oh | Nov 3 2005, 03:51 PM Post #54 |
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MAMIL
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Who's to know? I prefer the Union Flag myself, but we lost the chance for that much earlier. I think it's very easy to criticise with the proverbial 20/20 hindsight, for what was done under periods of extreme stress. If Roosevelt hadn't had the Japanese internment, for example, and there'd been some kind of major mainland atrocity, he'd still be getting torn a new one today. Digressing slightly, running a country during periods of great upheaval has got to be one of the most thankless tasks going. Look at all the armchair generals who now level serious criticisms of Churchill's interfering during WWII - could we have done a better job without cracking under the stress? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| kentcouncil | Nov 3 2005, 04:11 PM Post #55 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Actually, this is a common misconception, and is often used as an argument against the necessity of the Civil War. In fact, the situation of surplus slaves becoming a financial liability was really true only for the Upper South, as less labor-intensive crops such as grain were grown in the depleted soils of Virginia and Maryland. There, slave owners found it more profitable to have their slaves as tenant farmers or rent them to factories. However, slavery as practiced in the lower, or Deep, South just prior to the Civil War lent those States many economic advantages, and probably if left on its own would have persisted for at least a few more decades. As essentially resource-based economies with a fantastically profitable crop (cotton) and insatiable markets overseas, the economies of the lower South states had a wealth and resilience that the Northern states lacked. The Panic of 1857, for example, was far more damaging to the Northern industrial states than the Southern states, which were virtually untouched. In 1860, ten of the richest men in America lived not just in the South, but in Mississippi. The 1808 legislation passed by Congress abolishing the transatlantic trade made slaves more scarce, and thus more valuable, in the South; the price of a healthy slave rose steadily until the onset of the Civil War, and many of the surplus slaves of the Upper South were sold to the Lower South, where they were in great demand. Of course, the slave economy made a few fabulously wealthy at the expense of the South's self-sufficiency and long-term viability, not to mention the retardation of political and social advancement. But it was a long way from collapsing when the Civil War began. |
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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't. - P.G. Wodehouse | |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 05:42 AM Post #56 |
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Junior Carp
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from IT "Oh, I see -- they "had their chance". And because they had some other sense of what freedom of religion and self determination was from the Reno Justice Department, they were executed with tanks, sniper rifles, and chemical warfare. You really want to defend the US against murderous attacks on its own citizens?" Hmmmmm.... don't quite get it yet? The Bush Davidians are those who stick to their story, stick to their lunatic (fringe) man even while the building burns. The big difference is that the Branch Davidians were just doing it to themselves while the Bush Davidians are trying to do it to the whole country! |
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| JBryan | Nov 4 2005, 05:45 AM Post #57 |
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I am the grey one
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Ron, put the crack pipe down. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 05:47 AM Post #58 |
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Junior Carp
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From Jolly "I gave you the examples, ..." of what? Anything about the insanity/or lack therof of the Branch/Bush Davidians, noooooo, you've got to follow their play book and talk about something unrelated to the metaphor at hand. Just stick with the lies, misdirections and the thuggerey; it's really the ONLY thing that has worked so well for YOUR side. |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 06:00 AM Post #59 |
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Junior Carp
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from jbryan "Ron, put the crack pipe down." let's see, ridicule.... was that page 4, or page 5 in the Bush Davidian play book? Nice to see y'all stayin' on track! |
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| JBryan | Nov 4 2005, 06:09 AM Post #60 |
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I am the grey one
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I need no play book to see a fool for what he is or to call him on it. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John D'Oh | Nov 4 2005, 06:48 AM Post #61 |
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MAMIL
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Let's face it, the word 'Davidian' is a little over the top. If you really want to upset them, you could try 'fascist bully-boys', or how about 'imperial storm troopers'. Come to think of it, Dick Cheney does look a little like Chancellor Palpatine. Tell you what, though, if they perfect the light-saber technology I'll be first in the queue to enroll. Bush Snr: Dublya, Dublya, I am your father... Maybe I should down the crack pipe, as well. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Phlebas | Nov 4 2005, 06:49 AM Post #62 |
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Bull-Carp
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OT: Speaking of the Branch Davidians, it might be interesting to remember that there were two "attacks" on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco TX. The first one was in Feb. 1993 - less than a month after Clinton was inaugurated - was planned in May of 1992, during the Bush (G.H.W.) administration, and carried out by a government beurocracy that had been under control of Republican administrations since 1981. Oh, and Janet Reno had not even been nominated by then. That initial raid drew a line in the sand, and most likely pre-ordained the second - more tragic - raid in April, 1993, because the Davidians knew they would be arrested for murder. Was it Bush's fault, or Clintons. Neither, and both. It was a bipartisan disaster. Btw, Clinton took full responsibility for both raids. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| John D'Oh | Nov 4 2005, 06:53 AM Post #63 |
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MAMIL
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Hey, you're not following the rules! |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Nov 4 2005, 06:59 AM Post #64 |
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Bull-Carp
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The State of Texas does have the right to rid itself of insurgents. |
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| apple | Nov 4 2005, 07:04 AM Post #65 |
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one of the angels
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anyone remember 'Janet Reno' dancing on SNL? |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| JBryan | Nov 4 2005, 07:05 AM Post #66 |
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I am the grey one
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The very thought of it leaves me somewhat unhinged. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 07:59 AM Post #67 |
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Junior Carp
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From John D'Oh "Let's face it, the word 'Davidian' is a little over the top. If you really want to upset them, you could try 'fascist bully-boys', or how about 'imperial storm troopers'..." No, even thought I think those terms may fit some folks pushing the buttons, I think Davidians conjures up the perfect image of the drones blindly following and regurgitating the stories spoon-fed to them on a daily basis. At least they didn't just drink the kool-aid... |
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| JBryan | Nov 4 2005, 08:02 AM Post #68 |
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I am the grey one
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Somehow I'm not feeling the love, Ron. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 08:16 AM Post #69 |
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Junior Carp
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Just adjust the radio, Rush will be on soon... |
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| JBryan | Nov 4 2005, 08:29 AM Post #70 |
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I am the grey one
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Great! I have just been winging it up until now.
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Phlebas | Nov 4 2005, 08:35 AM Post #71 |
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Bull-Carp
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I'm boring that way. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| ivorythumper | Nov 4 2005, 08:54 AM Post #72 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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"Doing it to themselves"???? You're sick.
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| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Nov 4 2005, 08:58 AM Post #73 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I think you are confusing Waco with People's Temple. The followers of Jim Jones poisoned themselves. The followers of David Koresh were murdered by the US Government. But, after all, you are just following the play book and regurgitating what was spoon fed to you be the media. Your analogy between Bush and the Davidians is limp, Dick --- err, I mean Ron. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| rontuner | Nov 4 2005, 09:10 AM Post #74 |
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Junior Carp
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From IT: "I think you are confusing Waco with People's Temple." No, no, that was the point - that the folks in Waco were standing up for something instead of drinking the kool-aide. (kindof like the folks in Iraq using the explosives your side allowed them to take after "winning the war"..) |
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| AlbertaCrude | Nov 4 2005, 09:22 AM Post #75 |
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Bull-Carp
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Just what was that important to the Branch Davidians that they saw fit to arm themselves against? |
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