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How much of the Bible (Old Testament) do you belief to be literally true?
100% 3 (11.5%)
90% 2 (7.7%)
80% 1 (3.8%)
70% 1 (3.8%)
60% 1 (3.8%)
50% 1 (3.8%)
40% 0 (0%)
30% 4 (15.4%)
20% 1 (3.8%)
10% 5 (19.2%)
0% 7 (26.9%)
Total Votes: 26
How much of the Bible (OT) is literally true?; Old Testament
Topic Started: Oct 29 2005, 07:47 PM (807 Views)
Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Please give your closest estimate on how much of the Bible (Old Testament) that you belief to be literally true.

Please vote also in the companion poll on the New Testament: http://s10.invisionfree.com/The_New_Coffee...?showtopic=3990

Thanks.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
:shrug:
Sam
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
How much of the "Bush lied and soldiers died" is true or the "Saddam would never cooperate with Al Qaeda". We are talking articles of faith here same as the question posed above. No proof required.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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pianojerome
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm not sure how I would go about picking an answer here. That would imply that I am familiar with every detail of the Bible, and that I have decided on every detail if it is literally true or not, and that I could approximate the ratio of details that I have deemed to be true and the details that I have deemed to not be true.

But I haven't studied every detail of the Bible, and for many of the subjects that I have studied, quite frankly I don't know if I believe 100% that it is true or purely metaphoric.

So: :shrug:
Sam
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Why does anyone care?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
(Referring to JBryan's post) Correct, no proof required. This poll asks only for your best estimate on how much of the document of interest you belief to be literally true. It does not ask for justification.

Furthermore, if you feel you must qualify your vote with a specific version (e.g., King James, NIV, etc.), please feel free to do so.

Thank you.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Axtremus
Oct 29 2005, 11:02 PM
(Referring to JBryan's post) Correct, no proof required. This poll asks only for your best estimate on how much of the document of interest you belief to be true. It does not ask for justification.

Furthermore, if you feel you must qualify your vote with a specific version (e.g., King James, NIV, etc.), please feel free to do so.

Thank you.

If proof or even believability is not an issue (as I suspected it would not be) then you only really need two or, maybe, three options in your poll.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Rick Zimmer
Oct 29 2005, 08:01 PM
Why does anyone care?

I was gonna say, Who cares?

It's a faith thing.

If you got the faith, it's all considered true.
If you don't then it doesn't matter to you.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rick Zimmer
Oct 30 2005, 12:01 AM
Why does anyone care?

Don't know why any one else would care, but for myself, I would like to get a more quantified sense of just how much "Christian Fundamentalism" we have among our membership.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
You are looking for far more granularity than you should reasonably expect. I mean, yeah, I think 23.9% of the Bible is true. Huh?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Oct 30 2005, 12:07 AM
If proof or even believability is not an issue (as I suspected it would not be) then you only really need two or, maybe, three options in your poll.

I suppose I could have simply split the options into {"none", "very little", "some", "a lot", "all"}. But I hope to be a but more granular and quantitative. The results will show if that finer granularity provided is meaningful. Thank you for your comment.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Oct 30 2005, 12:20 AM
You are looking for far more granularity than you should reasonably expect. I mean, yeah, I think 23.9% of the Bible is true.  Huh?

You are certainly most welcome to go down to the 3rd decimal point with your estimate. Although the limitation of the forum software's poll system pretty much limits the granularity, so I hope, using your example, the voter would have the good sense of rounding it to the nearest poll option. Thanks.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
You seem to be missing my point. 29.3% or 29% or 30% the principle is the same.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Oct 30 2005, 12:25 AM
You seem to be missing my point. 29.3% or 29% or 30% the principle is the same.

For you specific examples of 29.3%, 29%, and 30% -- yes, they would (or should) all get rounded to 30%, the closest poll option. Thank you.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Oooookay, 30% or 40% the principle is the same.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
JBryan
Oct 30 2005, 12:38 AM
Oooookay, 30% or 40% the principle is the same.

At this point, I will be happy to clarify questions pertaining to the mechanics of the poll as presented. In that sense, clearly, since both the 30% and the 40% options are available, they would not be the same as far as the mechanics of the poll is concerned.

But, here, it seems your objections/concerns are with the validity, premise, utility, and/or presentation of the poll. These are areas of debate that I respectfully decline to engage with you at this point. I will wait a while and see what the results are before addressing these objections/concerns of yours further. Thank you.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Ax, it is an either/or thing with most folks with some kind of in the middle. I tried to tell you that in an earlier post but it seems you are distracted by you search for "granularity".
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
In other words the poll should be 'All, some or none'

The next problem is I think even a hardened atheist would have a hard time claiming that none of it is at least based on fact. So you're left with some, or all.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Well, first you need to distinguish between "truth" and "fact." Personally, I believe the adjective "literal" is only correctly used with the latter, not the former.

Also, your question seems to be pointed toward the "histories," or event-stories, of the Old Testament (creation, Abraham & Isaac, Moses parting the waters, etc.)
But a large portion of the OT is "wisdom" or "poetry" writing, like Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiates, Lamentations, Song of Solomon; and prophecies, using symbolism to foretell of future events. Is your percentage supposed to be inclusive of these types of books, or prorated after removing them from the equation?

Before you can answer whether the OT is "literally true," you have to first agree on just what its message is to then weigh whether it's true or not.

To me, the message that the OT teaches us, as it winds through the various books and chapters, is this:

That the Judeo-Christian God YHWH is not an impersonal, detached God that has nothing to with humanity, like most pagan deities. This God is not merely a bigger, "superhuman" version of us, but has attributes like infinite love, mercy, justice, power, and knowledge, and transcends space and time. That God has created everything in creation, including us, and therefore, we are not our own, but God's. That God has a personal interest in the events in our lives, and us as individuals. That God wants our legitimate worship, which goes beyond merely carrying out ritual; that merely performing rituals thinking that's the extent of our "debt" to God, and then living in ways that God says is wrong, is offensive to God. That if we understand this an live according to the covenant that God has established with us, then we should have great joy, because we know that no matter what day-to-day life throws at us, that ultimately, God is in control, is looking out for us, and loves us, and is continually reaching out to us.

And that, I believe is, to use your term, "literally true." For any other answer, you'll need to further refine the question.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
the great Hillel said...

That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow.

that is the whole Torah.

all the rest is commentary.

now go study.

(Babylonian Talmud)



"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
This thread reminded me of my last OT class. The instructor was talking about the prophet Amos, who was not a "professional" prophet, but rather, tended to livestock and fig trees. A few times during the class, the instructor referred to Amos as "a plucker of figs."

I know I couldn't have been the only one in the class thinking he'd better not get tongue-tied.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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***musical princess***
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HOLY CARP!!!
:lol:

:lol2:

:thumb:

x
x Caroline x
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Klotz
Middle Aged Carp
Axtremus
Oct 30 2005, 06:14 AM
I would like to get a more quantified sense of just how much "Christian Fundamentalism" we have among our membership.

Just about everybody here with the exception of Jeffrey, Dr. Bachophile and me. I wonder if Amanda ....
Posted Image
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
u forgot pianosam
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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***musical princess***
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HOLY CARP!!!
I wouldn't call myself a 'fundamentalist'.

:no:

x
x Caroline x
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