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| Question for Blacks; ...also known as 'African Americans'. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 9 2005, 05:14 AM (5,166 Views) | |
| Ballyhoo | Aug 9 2005, 03:28 PM Post #126 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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89th, I think you should remove your use of the word "gook", for your own sake and for the sake of jgoo's board. The mere use of the word "gook" is offensive to many people, not to the same extent that "nigger" is offensive (in my opinion), but in a similar way. What you said was not a quote from a movie, but a joke you made by reversing quote from a movie (as you said). I know you didn't mean to offend anyone, but if someone new to this board saw what you wrote, they could easily get the wrong idea. Using the word "gook" will make people think you're racist. About your original question, white people say "wiff" for "with" too, especially in some parts of England. They also say "fanks" for "thanks", and things like "an 'olidee" instead of "a holiday". There are lots of other examples. |
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| Dewey | Aug 9 2005, 03:53 PM Post #127 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Svolich, Ubliudok, and Mudak? Those were three guys from my home town. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| greg | Aug 9 2005, 04:04 PM Post #128 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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You, 89th, and Bill Cosby are all wrong, at least in saying that "aks" or "wiff" is bad English. A dialect can't be "bad" so long as it serves its purpose, which is to allow its speakers to communicate with other speakers of the same dialect. I expect your idea of "good" English is Standard American English, which is itself a dialect, albeit a rare one; it can be heard on the nightly news and almost nowhere else. This idea that certain dialects are poor or inferior stems not from a judgement about the dialect itself, but about its speakers. Groups low on the socioeconomic spectrum speak a certain way; groups at the other end speak a different way. On linguistic grounds, neither is better. Our preferences are shaped by our perceptions of the speakers. |
| "What do you think it is, stupid? It's a string for my lute." | |
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| Luke's Dad | Aug 9 2005, 04:08 PM Post #129 |
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Emperor Pengin
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The whole point of this whole damn thread was to evoke this kind of response so that he could be titillated by it. Look at the title of the thread. The question could have been written as "why do young urban african americans.....", "why do people (in general).......", you get the gist. Instead, this thread read to me as an attempt at a humorous insult towards a particular minority group, that he thought he could get away with. And our response has given him everything he could have wanted. |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 9 2005, 04:21 PM Post #130 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, not NOWHERE else. Ever wonder why so many broadcasters are Canadian? Not that we don't have our own distinct dialects. I have a couple of friends from Newfoundland, and when I first met them (they came to Toronto for university) it was like speaking to someone for whom English was a very recent aquisition (ugh - with the time it took me to figure out THAT spelling, people will think I'm new to the language as well). But it's not that their English was BAD - it's just the way the people from that particular area have been speaking for an awfully long time, and it differs from how I grew up speaking it. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Amanda | Aug 9 2005, 04:21 PM Post #131 |
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Senior Carp
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Possiblyy so, LD. I read it more as a tilting at windmills thing designed to stimulate a flamboyant debate about PC "hypocrisy". Besides, I guess the gay issue's done to death for now. This remark kind of stuck in my craw though.
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Aug 9 2005, 05:50 PM Post #132 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I think a word we all pronounce properly is "bigot." |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 9 2005, 05:51 PM Post #133 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I'm with LD... |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| kathyk | Aug 9 2005, 05:53 PM Post #134 |
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Pisa-Carp
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You usually are.
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| Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/ | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 9 2005, 05:56 PM Post #135 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Someone better go and add all the missing "r"s to Boston dictionaries then. Obviously Mirriam Webster has been shipping faulty product to that area for decades. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Fizzygirl | Aug 9 2005, 06:08 PM Post #136 |
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Fulla-Carp
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89 I find your racial remarks disgusting and extremely offensive. I haven't seen a bigger bigot since Archie Bunker. |
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Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a purpose. ~ Garrison Keillor My latest videos. | |
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| big al | Aug 9 2005, 06:11 PM Post #137 |
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Bull-Carp
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I've watched this thread grow like topsy all day. I guess I'll throw in my two cents worth. 1. In the original post, 89th described how someone else was talking. It's not at all clear from the context that they were talking to him. In fact, it sounds like he was evesdropping. 2. In Dwain's first post, he aluded to different norms of speech in different circumstances. If the girl in question was talking to a peer in language common to that peer group, then I don't have a problem with it. Most of us, particularly when young, had slang,grammer, etc. that was intended to associate us with a group of peers and set us off from others. 3. It is possible, although it seems unlikely, that 89th was simply naive in his question. Perhaps he has led an unusually sheltered existence to date. I had an incident in college where I used a ethnic slur that I was unacquainted with because I had a friend of that ethnic derivation who used it in jest and I repeated the comment to someone else. I got a very quick lesson in why I shouldn't be using that word. In the end, I'm sorry that you don't understand the lesson that Nina and others have tried to convey, 89th. Even if a statement is factually true, there still is no compulsion to make it if it will be hurtful. It is possible to discuss ideas and concepts without throwing around words that are the equivalent of verbal hand grenades. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Fizzygirl | Aug 9 2005, 06:17 PM Post #138 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Extremely well put Al (as always!)
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Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a purpose. ~ Garrison Keillor My latest videos. | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 9 2005, 06:21 PM Post #139 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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This reminds me of something a friend of mine did in a grade 8 classroom (an idea I've stolen for my own bag of tricks). My friend is gay, and a public school teacher. He obviously doesn't advertise, but he's not closeted either. He was supply teaching in a grade 8 room, and had been there for a couple weeks. Nothing's changed since I went to school, apparently :rolleyes: and calling someone "gay" or a "fag" as an insult is still pretty popular. During class, one of the kids said to another "You're such a fag!" My friend had been listening to this all week, and finally had enough. He dropped the book he had been holding on the floor, went and sat down on top of a kid's desk (an empty desk) and started rhyming off every slur about gays he's ever heard. There are quite a few of them. The kids sat there, stunned, as my friend said "Fag, queer, homo, limp wristed, faggot, lesbo" etc etc etc on down the list. Then he moved on to slurs about the mentally retarded (also a big insult line with kids). After he got through his list, he gave them a talk about why these words shouldn't be used as insults. "One of the things I've found about this class is that the students are concerned that everyone feels safe and welcome. Is that true?" Lots of nodding. "What if there is someone in this class who is gay? What if their brother or sister or another loved one is gay? Do you think they feel safe and welcome when they hear that?" He lectured for about 5 minutes - never raising his voice, not angry, just explaining. A couple of the kids (including the boy who said it) were in tears. Hopefully, it was a lesson well learned, and perhaps one that some people never got. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Dewey | Aug 9 2005, 06:47 PM Post #140 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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That's absolute nonsense. There are rules of grammar, pronunciation and usage in English, as in every other language. There are dialects and variations in every language, but they are flavoringings and variations of actual standards that are set, and taught, as the correct usage. If your statements were correct, then there would be absolutely no reason to teach English in our schools - we could all just speak the way we wanted to; no one's speech would be considered "better" or more proper. You may buy that, but I don't. Based on that argument, all I'd have to do is start pronouncing the letter K as "Three," and it would be just as valid as the sound that it has been attributed to that letter throughout time just because I chose to use it, and after a week or so, everyone hearing me would understand me, knowing that that was the way I pronounced the letter K. No, there are standards, in language, in culture, in life. Adhering more closely to those standards is "better," and adhering less so to them is "worse." Denying that, supposedly in an attempt to help people by sheltering them from the reality and consequences of such valuations, has caused those people immense harm by allowing them to live lives of delusion. This is a fact that extends far beyond the specific issue being raised in this thread. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 06:57 PM Post #141 |
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Thanks for your thoughts ballyhoo, but I'm not going to remove it. In fact, the word "gook" has now appeared more from others saying it, than my original post. Many times over. Same thing goes for "nigger". These words have been used many times in the past and a few times in this thread. Removing it would do nothing. I'll only remove it if jgoo or justme asks me to, I'll respect those rules. However, such a request will not be taken lightly and I caution those moderators strongly before even considering such an option, as I'm sure they already have. I think I am WELL within the boundaries of this forum's rules. Secondly, you might be right regarding others saying "wiff" and "aks". Perhaps it's just my age range, or my region, but I quite honestly can not remember the last time someone said wiff or aks, who wasn't black. Not being racist, but something this morning clicked and I wanted to hear the thoughts of the CR on the issue. Believe it or not a few relevant posts have made it out alive from this jungle of a thread, including yours.
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 9 2005, 07:00 PM Post #142 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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89th, Yes, people have posted the words "gook" and "nigger" in this thread - in context of the discussion, to make valid arguments. It's the difference between reading a class "To Kill a Mockingbird" and referring to the black teacher down the hall jokingly as a nigger. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 07:01 PM Post #143 |
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I think it's obvious the subject line of this thread was meant to poke fun at the politically correct term of African Americans. The thread, itself, was honest. Perhaps it would be best just to call everyone a Pangean? ![]() ...although I'm sure Jesse Jackson would somehow protest that as well. :rolleyes: |
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| apple | Aug 9 2005, 07:02 PM Post #144 |
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one of the angels
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so WTF are you trying to prove? |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 07:02 PM Post #145 |
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I'm always ready for a new trial!! ![]() |
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 07:05 PM Post #146 |
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Probably because we all are bigots, technically. But if you want, I'll let you try and explain how I'm a bigot and you're not. Shrubbery?
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 07:05 PM Post #147 |
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For example...?
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| Nina | Aug 9 2005, 07:09 PM Post #148 |
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Senior Carp
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| The 89th Key | Aug 9 2005, 07:10 PM Post #149 |
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The two girls were in line in front of me, talking to each other and the cashier. I don't remember who she said "aks" and "wiff" to, but it just caught my attention. My question wasn't from a naive standpoint. A few posts have actually addressed the issue, but the majority haven't focused on anything but personally attacking me. The question was asked with sincerity. No, I didn't know some people in England also said "aks" and "wiff" instead of ask and with. Perhaps that was the crux of the problem, but my question was asked with sincerity as it's boggled my mind forever. I can understand it's a cultural thing, but that doesn't warrant such a blatantly incorrect pronunciation of ask and with. |
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| dolmansaxlil | Aug 9 2005, 07:10 PM Post #150 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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*snicker |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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