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Regulating Decency; The battle over cable...
Topic Started: Jul 25 2005, 06:09 AM (498 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.economist.com/business/displayS...tory_id=4199162
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Good article. I found this part especially interesting:

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One defensive strategy for the media industry is to play the moralising wing of the Republican Party off against its substantial libertarian wing, which is opposed to giving the government more power to censor .


Not the only debate in the party taking place along those lines. Is the American public to be trusted when it comes to deciding what will be shown in their homes?

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...Intriguingly, opposition to the censorship lobby is coming even from some in the media industry who might be expected to favour it. Even some explicitly Christian broadcasters worry that religion itself could come under attack from a future government with increased power to censor TV. “This administration is friendly to us, but a future government might head in the direction of Canada where a broadcaster can have its licence revoked if it refers negatively to homosexuality,” says Stuart Epperson, chairman of Salem Communications, a Christian radio company.


Mr. Epperson is a smart man. Give 'em a regulatory inch...

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Safe in their liberal strongholds of New York and Los Angeles, it is easy for media executives to underestimate the strength of public feeling against indecency on TV. “Look at the top shows,” says one, such as “CSI”, which is “all about murder, and ‘Desperate Housewives', full of sex.” But that misses the point. For the sake of children, a large part of the public wants something done. If media firms do not cater to this demand, Congress probably will.


(Italics mine.)

How many children watch "Desperate Housewives"?

And if the "strength of public feeling is against indecency", why are these the top shows?
Wag more
Bark less
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
To answer first questions last, what is considered a hit today, would have been considered a flop thirty years ago. Even with the increase in total viewers, the audience per show has declined dramatically.

So, sex sells, at least in some demographics. Violence, too.

The question is more aptly framed, I think, in the context of basic cable or satellite packages. I don't see how one could regulate "premium" content that costs extra, such as HBO, or something like the Playboy Channel, that the subscriber has to specifically buy.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
I guess we just add this to the increasingly long list of personal activities the Congress, primarily the GOP in Congress, wants to regulate to make sure we are all appropriately moral.

One would think that with program ratings, the V-chip and a little parental responsibility, the dear little ones would be safe enough.

But then, I guess the GOP Congress would prefer additional regulation on all of us to asking parents to take charge in their own homes.

Sheesh! Can't they just leave us alone and deal with something a little more important -- like runaway spending, a war that is becoming increasingly dire or lying White House aides?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Larry
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The irony - when it comes to reducing the filth sent out over the airwaves, liberals are vocally against government regulation to the point of sounding like libertarians. But when it comes to sticking their hands in our pockets, guns, religious freedom, they can't put enough regulations on the books.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Rick Zimmer
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Larry
Jul 25 2005, 09:09 AM
The irony - when it comes to reducing the filth sent out over the airwaves, liberals are vocally against government regulation to the point of sounding like libertarians. But when it comes to sticking their hands in our pockets, guns, religious freedom, they can't put enough regulations on the books.

Larry, feel free to exercise your own responsibility -- turn the damned thing off or change the channel!
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Larry
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That's lame, Rick.

If you don't like seeing the Ten Commandments in a courthouse, stay out of the courthouse.

If you don't like having kids taught ID or religion in schools, stay out of the schools.

If you don't like having the government sticking its hand in your pocket, quit working.

If you don't like America, get out of it.

Your comment is simple minded, and dodges the issue.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Sheesh! Can't they just leave us alone and deal with something a little more important -- like runaway spending, a war that is becoming increasingly dire or lying White House aides?

One thing we could regulate - voting. Anyone who misses two out of three points like you did wouldn't be allowed to vote, due to ideological constipation.

What lying white house aides? Karl Rove? Yeah, right. How about Rockefeller and Durbin? Where are you on that one?

"Increasingly dire war"? You're against the war. If your viewpoint on how we should have proceeded had won the day, you'd have given us a whole new understanding of the word "dire". Tell me Rick - what war can you think of that didn't have a front? Where is the front in this war, Rick? New York?

Runaway spending. I agree with you on that one. I also agree that Bush has been as bad as any Democrat when it comes to spending. But we could stop runaway spending very quickly. It is a proven fact that welfare and giveaway programs only worsen the problems of those it seeks to help. So cancel all of them. Close down all the government offices required to operate them, and fire every one of the employees. Limit congressmen and senators to 2 terms, and cut their pay in half. Put them all on the same social security program the rest of us are on. You want regulations? Regulate special interest groups and lobbyists - or ban them altogether. Pass tort reform. Dismantle the IRS and pass a national sales tax.

And elect fewer liberals.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Rick Zimmer
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Larry
Jul 25 2005, 09:27 AM
Your comment is simple minded, and dodges the issue.

My comment places responsibility where it belongs -- in the home and on the parents.

They have the tools to prtoect their children and to protect themselves.

They have the tools to control what comes into their homes on TV. They have the tools to control what comes into their home on the Internet (another area of content the Congress is drooling to control!) They have the tools to control the video games they and their kids play. They have the tools to control what music they and their kids listen to on CD's. They have the tools to control what movies they and their kids go see and which ones they rent and watch at home.

And most importantly, they have the tools to teach their own values to their children.

Let them use the tools they have. We need no further limitation on the flow if ideas and speech.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Like I said, it's a simple minded response.

If you don't like America's values, get out of it. You have the tools. Use them.

If you don't like seeing the Ten Commandments in the courthouse, don't walk into the courthouse. You have the tools. Use them.

I'm not arguing in favor of or against regulating cable. I'm talking about the hypocrisy of the left. When the regulating is *for* decency, you can always count on two things from the left - 1: they're against it, and will sound like libertarians as they rail against government regulation, and 2: they will defend their position with the same old worn out line....."if you don't like it, turn the channel".

Just like you have done.

But if it's a regulation *against* decency, morals, values, etc. they jump all over the big government/let's regulate everything bandwagon. No Ten Commandments in the courhouse, it might offend an athiest or a muslim..... but show those titties on the TV, because as we all know, the TV has a channel knob....

simple minded, and foolish.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Buxtehude
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Larry,

While Rick's response of "change the channel" is certainly glib, I don't think it's as simple and useless as your making it out to be. The airwaves, while public, are a form of entertainment and by no means a necessity and the content you're subjected to is easily controled by the individual. The examples you provided, in way of allegory, are considerably more concerning. Let's take a look at 'em, shall we?

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If you don't like seeing the Ten Commandments in a courthouse, stay out of the courthouse.

The courthouse is a very real and tangible representation of the liberties inherent in our country. It represents justice, equality, and order. All very excellent things - things that patriots have fought and died for. But when that courthouse starts to extoll the virtures of a single religion at the expense of others, regardless of historical trivialities, in a society and culture as diverse as the US it underscores the very real division that exists in our country. My position is that there is NO PLACE more inappropriate than a courthouse for exclusionary messages to be displayed.

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If you don't like having kids taught ID or religion in schools, stay out of the schools.

Religion shouldn't be taught by the government. Period. Relgion is the domain of the individual and their family. And by religion, I assume you mean YOUR religion. How bent would you be if you disagreed with state sponsored dogma? Yeah. Thought so. And ID isn't science. It's simply sophistry that exploits a very healthy position of, "we're not 100% sure yet".

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If you don't like having the government sticking its hand in your pocket, quit working.

Glib. But doesn't do justice to your argument. I mean, come on. Nobody likes taxes but the state you'd be in if you become indigent would be even worse. This one is silly.

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If you don't like America, get out of it.

Or work to change it for the better.

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But if it's a regulation *against* decency, morals, values, etc. they jump all over the big government/let's regulate everything bandwagon. No Ten Commandments in the courhouse, it might offend an athiest or a muslim.....


And of course, the 10 commandments are the only measure of decency, morals, and values, eh? *snicker. I seem to recall and awful lot of pretty atrocious things done in the name of the Big 10.

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but show those titties on the TV, because as we all know, the TV has a channel knob....

And I would argue that changing the knob on the idiot box is considerably easier than living in a nation that espouses liberty, freedom, and tolerance unless you're not a WASP.
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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ivorythumper
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Buxtehude
Jul 25 2005, 09:37 AM
But when that courthouse starts to extoll the virtures of a single religion at the expense of others, regardless of historical trivialities, in a society and culture as diverse as the US it underscores the very real division that exists in our country.

And what single religion is being espoused by displaying the Big 10?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Buxtehude
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In this particular case it's Christianity. Are you REALLY going to argue that point? Or will you just accept the tirades made against Church/State seperation and move on to something more meaningful?
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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taiwan_girl
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ivorythumper
Jul 25 2005, 12:55 PM
Buxtehude
Jul 25 2005, 09:37 AM
But when that courthouse starts to extoll the virtures of a single religion at the expense of others, regardless of historical trivialities, in a society and culture as diverse as the US it underscores the very real division that exists in our country.

And what single religion is being espoused by displaying the Big 10?

Speaking as someone who was not raised as a Christian, when I hear/see the 10 commandents, I think of Christianity. I think if you ask most people in Asia, they would probably respond the same way.

While the commandments are applicable to all, regardless of religion, and the sentiments that they say are very good for all people - for good or bad, they are associated with Christianity.

p.s. I realize that there are many religions that fall under Christianity.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well, I'm *not* a WASP.

"Change the channel"..... to what? That assumes there is only one or two offensive channels, and if I'm offended I have other options. What you are doing is limiting my freedom ("I" and "my" being used generically to make my point). I no longer have the same freedom as you, because now I have to limit my viewing to only those channels you haven't corrupted with filth. That means I get to watch reruns of the 3 stooges, and old cartoons.

"Turn the channel" is also simple minded because it ignores the will of the people. The majority of people *have* voted on this issue. The movie industry for instance. Those movies with vulgarity are dying at the box office for the most part. The largest growth industry in the movie business is in G and PG rated *family* movies. I know this, because I own a chain of video stores, and I get the trade magazines. I also know what people with children rent. Filth on TV is good for my business, because it is a constant theme among families "we can't watch the TV any more it's so filthy. We have to rent things fit to watch".

What you have is a bunch of sorry assed TV executives who have no clue what America's values are, producing garbage *they* think people want to watch, defended by leftwing loonies who also don't have a clue where America's values are, nor do they care. Their solution? "Turn the channel". I have a better solution. Let's limit *them*. Make *them* turn the channel to a limited number of channels if they want filth. See how *they* like having to limit their options.

As to the Ten Commandments - whether it appeals to you or not, our country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. The Ten Commandments are *not* of a single religion. They are arguable at the very heart of our legal system. No one gets hurt by seeing "don't steal" and "don't kill people" on the wall. They *do* get hurt by finding their 9 year old boy watching a couple have sex on TV.

But again - all this is nothing more than a derailing of my original point -

1. If it is decent, the left wants to regulate it out of existence.
2. If it is *not* decent, the left becomes militant libertarians.

The evidence for it is everywhere, including in the very arguments tossed out in this thread.

"Change the channel"......

*You* change the channel.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
The Ten Commandments are from the Torah.

It is Jewish Law.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Regulating the airwaves? No problemo, it's settled law.

What the new regulations may see to do, is to regulate cable or satellite...at least the "standard" type packages.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Buxtehude
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Engarde, Larry!

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Well, I'm *not* a WASP.

And that bit o' trivia undermines my point how?

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"Change the channel"..... to what? That assumes there is only one or two offensive channels, and if I'm offended I have other options. What you are doing is limiting my freedom ("I" and "my" being used generically to make my point).

I'm really trying to shed a tear for ya. Limiting your freedom? How? You are not guaranteed to EVER find anything worth watching on TV. Hell, I had cable for years and 90% of the time the programming was schlock. Are my freedoms being infringed upon by stupid programming? No. Are yours because you think it's offensive? Nope. Using "freedom" to support this argument undermines the real meaning of what freedom is and trivializes those freedoms we do have to the point of absurdity.

Quote:
 
"Turn the channel" is also simple minded because it ignores the will of the people. The majority of people *have* voted on this issue. The movie industry for instance. Those movies with vulgarity are dying at the box office for the most part.

Oh, I'm not so sure about that. Sith disgusting amounts of money and it was the most violent and graphic of all six combined. I know what you're referring to though. There was an article on Yahoo! News today about how horror flicks are dying in the box office. It's not 'cause they're violent though. It's 'cause by and large horror movies are not quality products. In any case, the movie industry is motivated by only one factor and that is return on investment. You say they're ignoring the will of the people? Then how come folks are so willing to spend money on so called vulgarity?

Quote:
 
As to the Ten Commandments - whether it appeals to you or not, our country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. The Ten Commandments are *not* of a single religion. They are arguable at the very heart of our legal system. No one gets hurt by seeing "don't steal" and "don't kill people" on the wall. They *do* get hurt by finding their 9 year old boy watching a couple have sex on TV.

Let's take this one apart and deal with it in two parts.

First, I concur that SOME of the 10 commandments are the core basis of our legal system. The last five specifically are the fundamental framework of just about every legal system since the dawn of human community. The whole, "no killin'. No rapin'. No stealing, no lyin''" thing is hardly unique to the Big 10. Some folks call it social contract. But I digress. What IS a problem are the first five. The five that demand utter and complete obedience to whatever version of God the person who nailed the stupid plaque down in the first place. Those are the ones that hurt people. Those are the ones that cause division and strain on an already divided nation.

Now, let's talk about finding one's 9 year old sitting in front of the idiot box watching folks get it on. A) I'd rather find that then my nine year old watching violence (which seems to have considerably more tolerance in our Puritan derived society). B) Who's responsibility is it to watch out for my kid? The TV exec? Hardly. It's mine. While I recognize that one can't monitor our kids all the time, it's a huge leap from taking responsibility for my kid's behavior and demanding legislation.

Quote:
 
But again - all this is nothing more than a derailing of my original point -

1. If it is decent, the left wants to regulate it out of existence.
2. If it is *not* decent, the left becomes militant libertarians.


1. Decent is a matter of perspective. It's not an absolute. You're certainly unqualified to make such decisions for me and mine.
2. Everyone ought to take this approach. You certainly wouldn't want ME to decide what's appropriate, would you?

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*You* change the channel.

I did. I'm preaching from a position of moral authority. I no longer have a TV 'cause I deplore the programming.
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
A couple of points:

The article refers to the Canadian CRTC regarding licensing. Yes, it is a regulatory body but its primary concern is to ensure that networks broadcast a prescribed minimum of Canadian content. Therefore if filth is of Canadian origin, it is likely to be acceptable to the CRTC.

This dispute over displaying the Big 10 in courthouses or public buildings is ludicrous. The Big 10 are common sense guidelines on how a person ought to live his or her life. If libertarians, liberals and those not of the Judeo-Christian traditions don't like them or are offended by their public dislplay I can only assume they also eschew common sense.
Evidently this is the case as anyone with common sense would not consider it an issue for debate.
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Buxtehude
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Quote:
 
The Big 10 are common sense guidelines on how a person ought to live his or her life. If libertarians, liberals and those not of the Judeo-Christian traditions don't like them or are offended by their public dislplay I can only assume they also eschew common sense.


*snicker. You're serious, aren't you?

Well, let's put it this way: The first five are rubbish. I'll give you the others, but God going off about how he has seperation anxiety is kinda annoying and hardly dictates any degree of morality.
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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Rick Zimmer
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AlbertaCrude
Jul 25 2005, 11:43 AM
The Big 10 are common sense guidelines on how a person ought to live his or her life. If libertarians, liberals and those not of the Judeo-Christian traditions don't like them or are offended by their public dislplay I can only assume they also eschew common sense.

Evidently this is the case as anyone with common sense would not consider it an issue for debate.

C'mon, AC. You know better than that!

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I am the Lord your God.  You shall have no other gods before me.


Is this a common sense guideline for how people should live or a religious tenet?

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You shall not make any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments


Is this a common sense guideline for how people should live or a religious tenet?

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You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain


Is this a common sense guideline for how people should live or a religious tenet?

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Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it


Is this a common sense guideline for how people should live or a religious tenet?
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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AlbertaCrude
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People with common sense wouldn't ask such questions.
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Buxtehude
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And people without support for their statements tend to reply as you do, AC.
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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AlbertaCrude
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Dosen't bother me any more than do the Big 10.
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Buxtehude
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Touche. But then what's the point of posting? Where's the fun in that?
Sister, they don't know what to do with one of me.

-- Riddick
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